Congratulations AsA - a modern IT wonder.
Lets face it updating a Windows app on large scale is a pain in the neck. No doubt why NFW hasn't changed in a long time.
Thread Starter
Can't stand change, expect everything for nothing and bitch about anyone who tries to improve something.
1/. that is is handled competently and
2/. The change brings about an improvement.
Yet to see evidence of either in this case.
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From: NAIPS Feedback
Sent: Friday, 2 November 2012 7:36 PM
Cc: NAIPS Feedback
Subject: RE: NAIPS Internet Service Update
Dear NAIPS User,
The work that our engineers have conducted over the last 2 days seems to have been successful. We have managed to greatly improve the system response times. Most users are now reporting that the system is performing acceptably. We will be monitoring the system over the weekend to ensure the performance problems are now resolved.
The new NAIPS system requires 7 character passwords. New default passwords have been created for users to ensure login is still possible. The detail of these amended passwords is described in AIC H32-12. (Link Below) http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...up/a12-h32.pdf
Please be aware that if you use the systems that are provided by 3rd parties such as Champagne, Avsoft, Avware, OzRunways, Command etc, these systems may have pre-saved password credentials. If you are experiencing difficulties with these systems it is possible that the pre-saved password requires amendment.
Users who have forgotten their NAIPS passwords can reset these via email.
As always, queries should be directed to the NAIPS Feedback mail box ([email protected]). In addition the Briefing Office is contactable on the following numbers: 1800 805150 (PhoneAway card required) or 07 3866 3517.
Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience caused during the commissioning of the new NAIPS system. I hope the improvements we have made help your flying operations in the long term.
Regards,
Justin Parker
Project Manager
Airservices Australia
Sent: Friday, 2 November 2012 7:36 PM
Cc: NAIPS Feedback
Subject: RE: NAIPS Internet Service Update
Dear NAIPS User,
The work that our engineers have conducted over the last 2 days seems to have been successful. We have managed to greatly improve the system response times. Most users are now reporting that the system is performing acceptably. We will be monitoring the system over the weekend to ensure the performance problems are now resolved.
The new NAIPS system requires 7 character passwords. New default passwords have been created for users to ensure login is still possible. The detail of these amended passwords is described in AIC H32-12. (Link Below) http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...up/a12-h32.pdf
Please be aware that if you use the systems that are provided by 3rd parties such as Champagne, Avsoft, Avware, OzRunways, Command etc, these systems may have pre-saved password credentials. If you are experiencing difficulties with these systems it is possible that the pre-saved password requires amendment.
Users who have forgotten their NAIPS passwords can reset these via email.
As always, queries should be directed to the NAIPS Feedback mail box ([email protected]). In addition the Briefing Office is contactable on the following numbers: 1800 805150 (PhoneAway card required) or 07 3866 3517.
Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience caused during the commissioning of the new NAIPS system. I hope the improvements we have made help your flying operations in the long term.
Regards,
Justin Parker
Project Manager
Airservices Australia
Slugfest,
My airline management try to blow us off with the "there are more issues that you can't possibly understand" BS too.
This is corporate speak for "we don't give a s***". I, and other Ppruners, don't doubt there are other issues at play in the background. But that is no excuse for the absolute shambles which occurred during the rollout.
Claiming there are other factors as play is just a cop out. It allows managers to acknowledge end-user errors, yet avoid blame or responsibility. Corporate hand washing at its finest.
The only factor at play here seems to be ICAO timeframes. Please tell us all about all the other hidden considerations, because we are dying to know.
If ICAO timeframe was the real agenda, why didn't ASA have the balls to tell ICAO the deadline could not be reached without a safety compromise and to stick it up their jumper?
Have ASA not learned the lessons of Norfolk? There is no better example than this of the degradation to safety where pilots are unable to obtain a preflight briefing. The recently released report should have been a big red flashing warning light to Australian Aviation that holes in the ability to obtain information both preflight and in flight can have dire consequences. I can guarantee the pressure felt by the Norfolk pilot at the preflight stage was felt by hundreds of pilots around the nation on the day you roles out a white whale. What will it take for the lessons of the past to be learnt?
The system problems and lack of awevice during the rollout might have been acceptable to you, or ASA management, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to everyone. Would you hav dealt with the time pressure of operating a service on time for your paying passengers? Had you been a passenger, would you have accepted missing an international connecting flight due to domestic delays? Will ASA reimburse my company the tens of thousands of dollars in STD calls to operations trying to get weather read out to them over the phone?
What might be acceptable to ASA was most definitely NOT acceptable to the majority of pilots who were affected.
And lastly, this site is called PPrune. If you don't want to listen to pilots having a whinge about ASAs mess, then perhaps you need to rethink visiting a "pilot rumour network". And just because we have a cry on here, don't assume we haven't taken formal steps either. My FOM, CP, ASA and the ATSB have already heard from me.
End rant.
My airline management try to blow us off with the "there are more issues that you can't possibly understand" BS too.
This is corporate speak for "we don't give a s***". I, and other Ppruners, don't doubt there are other issues at play in the background. But that is no excuse for the absolute shambles which occurred during the rollout.
Claiming there are other factors as play is just a cop out. It allows managers to acknowledge end-user errors, yet avoid blame or responsibility. Corporate hand washing at its finest.
The only factor at play here seems to be ICAO timeframes. Please tell us all about all the other hidden considerations, because we are dying to know.
If ICAO timeframe was the real agenda, why didn't ASA have the balls to tell ICAO the deadline could not be reached without a safety compromise and to stick it up their jumper?
Have ASA not learned the lessons of Norfolk? There is no better example than this of the degradation to safety where pilots are unable to obtain a preflight briefing. The recently released report should have been a big red flashing warning light to Australian Aviation that holes in the ability to obtain information both preflight and in flight can have dire consequences. I can guarantee the pressure felt by the Norfolk pilot at the preflight stage was felt by hundreds of pilots around the nation on the day you roles out a white whale. What will it take for the lessons of the past to be learnt?
The system problems and lack of awevice during the rollout might have been acceptable to you, or ASA management, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to everyone. Would you hav dealt with the time pressure of operating a service on time for your paying passengers? Had you been a passenger, would you have accepted missing an international connecting flight due to domestic delays? Will ASA reimburse my company the tens of thousands of dollars in STD calls to operations trying to get weather read out to them over the phone?
What might be acceptable to ASA was most definitely NOT acceptable to the majority of pilots who were affected.
And lastly, this site is called PPrune. If you don't want to listen to pilots having a whinge about ASAs mess, then perhaps you need to rethink visiting a "pilot rumour network". And just because we have a cry on here, don't assume we haven't taken formal steps either. My FOM, CP, ASA and the ATSB have already heard from me.
End rant.
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SP,
I have never said anything about acceptable or otherwise, merely passed on information I have received.
I'm not going to justify or apologise to you or anyone else for that matter in reference to the events of last week. There will be investigation and post implementation reviews conducted and that is the proper course of events.
Fact is there was a problem in the rollout and that was subsequently corrected and a large group of people on both sides of the mike worked together during the problem as they do when any contingency situation arises.
I have never said anything about acceptable or otherwise, merely passed on information I have received.
I'm not going to justify or apologise to you or anyone else for that matter in reference to the events of last week. There will be investigation and post implementation reviews conducted and that is the proper course of events.
Fact is there was a problem in the rollout and that was subsequently corrected and a large group of people on both sides of the mike worked together during the problem as they do when any contingency situation arises.
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In any normal implementation all the stakeholders are pre notified of changes that will affect them !!!!!!
Please be aware that if you use the systems that are provided by 3rd parties such as Champagne, Avsoft, Avware, OzRunways, Command etc, these systems may have pre-saved password credentials. If you are experiencing difficulties with these systems it is possible that the pre-saved password requires amendment.
This is high handed arrogant nonsense from the ASA project manager.
Where was the pre notification ???
Please be aware that if you use the systems that are provided by 3rd parties such as Champagne, Avsoft, Avware, OzRunways, Command etc, these systems may have pre-saved password credentials. If you are experiencing difficulties with these systems it is possible that the pre-saved password requires amendment.
This is high handed arrogant nonsense from the ASA project manager.
Where was the pre notification ???
Last edited by T28D; 4th Nov 2012 at 06:35.
We would love change, tossbag, but we expect:
1/. that is is handled competently and
2/. The change brings about an improvement.
Yet to see evidence of either in this case.
1/. that is is handled competently and
2/. The change brings about an improvement.
Yet to see evidence of either in this case.
Are you always so endearing to differing opinions?
IMHO this is being handled competently, IT always seems hit and miss, even the banks stuff up, gremlins are comonplace in all web sites and ****e happens. Despite what you (and others) may think, I was also inconvenienced by these changes. Not as badly as Ops Normals experience perhaps, but I like most found a work around.
I also happen to think that the new interface shows some improvement, the instruction book is excellent and in a month everyone will be settled in, the system will be working as good as IT gets and your thread will be forgotton.
Regards AB
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But do you use internet banking 10 times a day every day like people use NAIPS?
Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it's not happening. NAB has had an extraordinarily bad run this year, but my other banks have had outages too.
Very few affected me because I use them once or twice a week...
I am not defending Airservices, but to pretend they are worse than everyone else is nonsense. I'm just a stickler for accuracy in reporting.
Ah well, maybe I am not as disappointed as some because I expected mediocrity and got exactly that...
Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it's not happening. NAB has had an extraordinarily bad run this year, but my other banks have had outages too.
Very few affected me because I use them once or twice a week...
I am not defending Airservices, but to pretend they are worse than everyone else is nonsense. I'm just a stickler for accuracy in reporting.
Ah well, maybe I am not as disappointed as some because I expected mediocrity and got exactly that...
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The implementation, speed and accessibility of the new NAIPS was (is)..........amazingly BAD!
The confusion created by incorrect data sequencing after submitting flight plans electronically and the ensuing call for taxiing met with advice there was either no plan or a plan submitted at the wrong time or date - contrary to the data you have in front of you.
Third party program incompatibility gave further evidence of just how poorly this all unfolded.
Along with various re-routing along the east coast due to "Radar" outage makes you wonder at the health of "Airservices".
Mediocrity beyond which there has been no previous scale! When the dust settles you would hope there is some serious soul searching to be done.
To those in Airservices whose patience and professional conducted greatly assisted.....thank you.
The confusion created by incorrect data sequencing after submitting flight plans electronically and the ensuing call for taxiing met with advice there was either no plan or a plan submitted at the wrong time or date - contrary to the data you have in front of you.
Third party program incompatibility gave further evidence of just how poorly this all unfolded.
Along with various re-routing along the east coast due to "Radar" outage makes you wonder at the health of "Airservices".
Mediocrity beyond which there has been no previous scale! When the dust settles you would hope there is some serious soul searching to be done.
To those in Airservices whose patience and professional conducted greatly assisted.....thank you.
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On the subject of upgrades, I can't seem to find the spfib page in the ipad naips app. Any ideas? I can get everything else, password ok and all that, but don't seem to be able to find the spfib page anymore.... Any ideas Bas?
Bottums Up
Originally Posted by porch monkey
On the subject of upgrades, I can't seem to find the spfib page in the ipad naips app. Any ideas? I can get everything else, password ok and all that, but don't seem to be able to find the spfib page anymore.... Any ideas Bas?
I am still argung that the roll out was OK.
Bas, was the the first edition of Oz perfect? The second perhaps? Third even ... My subs to you folk are current despite the odd bug.
In my world the internet banking is OK but not perfect and my EFTPOS machine is chronically slow but CBA don't really want to know. How many credit cards got crunched when the banking hole in the wall first appeared? How quick we forget. The (new) NAIPS was implemented and was then almost perfect within 48 hours.
Mediocre? Bit harsh I reckon. I would be more generous and say "within spec". I could even be more generous and say "as anticipated".
Anyone still having problems? For me it has been faultless from day 2.
Bas, was the the first edition of Oz perfect? The second perhaps? Third even ... My subs to you folk are current despite the odd bug.
In my world the internet banking is OK but not perfect and my EFTPOS machine is chronically slow but CBA don't really want to know. How many credit cards got crunched when the banking hole in the wall first appeared? How quick we forget. The (new) NAIPS was implemented and was then almost perfect within 48 hours.
Mediocre? Bit harsh I reckon. I would be more generous and say "within spec". I could even be more generous and say "as anticipated".
Anyone still having problems? For me it has been faultless from day 2.
Last edited by Aussie Bob; 5th Nov 2012 at 04:57.
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Faultless since day 2... Nope. Workable certainly.
It helps to know that a flight plan with a lat/lon sig point, e.g. 2120S15245E, will be really awkward to cancel or amend because some genius decided that the NIS user interface should put spaces in to the lat lon, e.g. "21 20S 152 45E" every time it is re-presented to the user. Try a 30-point Customs run in lat/lons and you will soon lose your sense of humour about it.
Submit the same plan via the 3rd party interface using the decimal lat/lon variant for specifying the point and the notification will be flatly refused with a message that does not gel with the request you sent. Workaround required: use the encoded text as a name like the good old days.
Retrieve a route directory for BN to PH and marvel at the truncated result.
Periodic "Error processing xxx request - Host failure" type messages.
These are the sort of teething problems I expected, not the wholesale smoldering servers result we got.
It helps to know that a flight plan with a lat/lon sig point, e.g. 2120S15245E, will be really awkward to cancel or amend because some genius decided that the NIS user interface should put spaces in to the lat lon, e.g. "21 20S 152 45E" every time it is re-presented to the user. Try a 30-point Customs run in lat/lons and you will soon lose your sense of humour about it.
Submit the same plan via the 3rd party interface using the decimal lat/lon variant for specifying the point and the notification will be flatly refused with a message that does not gel with the request you sent. Workaround required: use the encoded text as a name like the good old days.
Retrieve a route directory for BN to PH and marvel at the truncated result.
Periodic "Error processing xxx request - Host failure" type messages.
These are the sort of teething problems I expected, not the wholesale smoldering servers result we got.
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Ah yes, you noticed that too. After looking at the spec and thinking "this is how it needs to be done now", spent a couple of hours implementing and testing parsers for lat/lon and waypoint-bearing-distance - only to have both not working, but just putting "BAK270090" as waypoint name still works. Sigh.
Reported, but of course no response whatsoever on the issue.
I fully expect at some random point, they will fix it without telling us and they won't accept lat/lon as waypoint name and will need to use the "proper" methods.
Reported, but of course no response whatsoever on the issue.
I fully expect at some random point, they will fix it without telling us and they won't accept lat/lon as waypoint name and will need to use the "proper" methods.
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SPFIB is still being worked on. Couple of weeks hopefully.
NAIPS is really Shagpile's baby, even though it is sold under the OzRunways banner now, so he'll be the one to ask about the future of the interface!
NAIPS is really Shagpile's baby, even though it is sold under the OzRunways banner now, so he'll be the one to ask about the future of the interface!
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Thanks for that Bas. Pity, as I found it a useful tool for briefing on the way to work and such........ and you always had the spfib available to you on the ipad. Anyone know if it is possible on the new interface to save the briefing as a file for later use, ie, on the ipad? I must be missing something. I don't want/can't print it.
Air-lack of-Services make the HKCAD look competent and that is no easy task.
As far as the service being " free ", I think most operators of A/C would beg to differ.
AsA, third world services at first world prices, just another bunch of public service
s
As far as the service being " free ", I think most operators of A/C would beg to differ.
AsA, third world services at first world prices, just another bunch of public service
s