Definition of "DAY" in the AUS CAR/CAO?
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Definition of "DAY" in the AUS CAR/CAO?
Hi guy's
For those that are up to speed with their Airlaw knowledge I am wondering if anyone knows where it gives the definition of a day whether it be in the CAR's or CAO's?
Much appreciated.
For those that are up to speed with their Airlaw knowledge I am wondering if anyone knows where it gives the definition of a day whether it be in the CAR's or CAO's?
Much appreciated.
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Other more knowledgeable peeps might add to this, but I have a feeling that in typical fashion, The regulator's definition could be found by understanding what day 'is not', rather than what it is.
Look for 'civil twilight', 'end of daylight' etc. Day is the the time that is not encapsulated by the definition of 'night'. hah!
Look for 'civil twilight', 'end of daylight' etc. Day is the the time that is not encapsulated by the definition of 'night'. hah!
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5-50
Hey mate,
I understand what you mean however going of the definition of civil twilight/daylight will not help in relation to finding the definition of a day.
To put it in different terms for instance the flight and duty times for a pilot they use the word day quite a bit. so where does it give the definition of a day. is it 24hrs 12am-12am ? etc
I understand what you mean however going of the definition of civil twilight/daylight will not help in relation to finding the definition of a day.
To put it in different terms for instance the flight and duty times for a pilot they use the word day quite a bit. so where does it give the definition of a day. is it 24hrs 12am-12am ? etc
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It's actually more complex than you'd think. Normally the font of all wisdom on legal definitions is the wonderfully-titled Acts Interpretation Act (1901), but it offers no guidance beyond the date and time, for the application of law, shall be the date and time in local time at whatever part of the Commonwealth you happen to be in.
There's a lot of common law about 'days', which mostly suggests for the purposes you're asking that it's considered to be a 24-hour period commencing at midnight in local time.
(There's also a wonderful nugget in the AIA(1901) about things being due on a weekend or holiday are legally considered due on the 'next day that is not a Saturday, Sunday, or holiday', which might help in an argument with CASA about renewal dates one day.)
There's a lot of common law about 'days', which mostly suggests for the purposes you're asking that it's considered to be a 24-hour period commencing at midnight in local time.
(There's also a wonderful nugget in the AIA(1901) about things being due on a weekend or holiday are legally considered due on the 'next day that is not a Saturday, Sunday, or holiday', which might help in an argument with CASA about renewal dates one day.)
Last edited by Woodwork; 30th Oct 2012 at 05:36.
Schedule 1 of the National Measurement Regulations 1999 defines these time intervals:
‘day’ means 86,400 seconds
‘hour’ means 3,600 seconds
‘minute’ means 60 seconds
‘second’ means the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the 2 hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.
AIP appears to define only the meteorological phenomenon of ‘day’, not the time interval.
‘day’ means 86,400 seconds
‘hour’ means 3,600 seconds
‘minute’ means 60 seconds
‘second’ means the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the 2 hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.
AIP appears to define only the meteorological phenomenon of ‘day’, not the time interval.
Ever seen those beginning and end of daylight graphs in the AIP's (or Jepps)?
AIP GEN 2.7
1. DAYLIGHT AND DARKNESS GRAPHS
1.1 “Night” is that period between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight. For all intents and purposes, first light should be construed as the beginning of civil twilight, and last light as the end of civil twilight. The terms “sunrise” and “sunset” have no relevance when calculating daylight operating times for the VFR pilot.
1. DAYLIGHT AND DARKNESS GRAPHS
1.1 “Night” is that period between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight. For all intents and purposes, first light should be construed as the beginning of civil twilight, and last light as the end of civil twilight. The terms “sunrise” and “sunset” have no relevance when calculating daylight operating times for the VFR pilot.
Ever seen those beginning and end of daylight graphs in the AIP's (or Jepps)?
A pilot shall not fly and an operator shall not roster him or her to fly in excess of 30 hours in 7 consecutive days.
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Avturbound, have you considered providing some context for your question? E.g. I did thirty hours flying since last Wednesday, 9pm. Can I go flying again tonight at 9:30pm?
Might stimulate a bit more educated discussion. Or gossip anyway, which is almost as fun...
Might stimulate a bit more educated discussion. Or gossip anyway, which is almost as fun...
Creampuff,
They don't, but if someone is having trouble applying the most basic of flight and duty times, maybe this industry isn't for them?
How does the SI definition help?
Avturbound,
Treat a "day" as a period of duty and the preceeding rest period. If you're trying to twist it any further, then it would seem as if you were trying to bust a rule.
They don't, but if someone is having trouble applying the most basic of flight and duty times, maybe this industry isn't for them?
How does the SI definition help?
Avturbound,
Treat a "day" as a period of duty and the preceeding rest period. If you're trying to twist it any further, then it would seem as if you were trying to bust a rule.
How does the SI definition help?
Errrmmmm, perhaps it helps because it’s the answer to the OP’s question. It is authoritative definition of what ‘day’ means when that word is used to mean a time interval.
So how does midnight-to-midnight help the OP, here for example:
The SI definition works perfectly and precisely in that context. Every second of every day, 7 consecutive days elapse and a brand new period of 7 consecutive days starts.
A pilot shall not fly and an operator shall not roster him or her to fly in excess of 30 hours in 7 consecutive days.
Yeah, your definition could be construed that way.
Rules don't say what definition you have to use, though, therefore it could be taken that they don't say you can't use another definition, ie. From start of rest period to end of duty period being classed in its entirity as one day.
Hypothetically,
Day 1 (after a sufficient rest period) starts 6am
Day 2 started rest period before 10pm
Day 3 off
Day 4 started duty at 6:01am thus covering the two consecutive 10pm to 6am periods
Day 5 normal
Day 6 normal
Day 7 started at 5pm finished at 11pm
(So in this case the "7 days" being 7 days and 11 hrs...)
This would actually be a safest case scenario by Creampuff's suggested definition.
How would you present a set of times that breaches your angle?
(Not being smart, just the brain's going fuzzy after not enough sleep.)
Rules don't say what definition you have to use, though, therefore it could be taken that they don't say you can't use another definition, ie. From start of rest period to end of duty period being classed in its entirity as one day.
Hypothetically,
Day 1 (after a sufficient rest period) starts 6am
Day 2 started rest period before 10pm
Day 3 off
Day 4 started duty at 6:01am thus covering the two consecutive 10pm to 6am periods
Day 5 normal
Day 6 normal
Day 7 started at 5pm finished at 11pm
(So in this case the "7 days" being 7 days and 11 hrs...)
This would actually be a safest case scenario by Creampuff's suggested definition.
How would you present a set of times that breaches your angle?
(Not being smart, just the brain's going fuzzy after not enough sleep.)
Last edited by MakeItHappenCaptain; 31st Oct 2012 at 01:55.
Let’s make it as simple as possible and assume that this rule is the only one about flight and duty times: “A pilot shall not fly and an operator shall not roster him or her to fly in excess of 30 hours in 7 consecutive days.”
Ms Bloggs is rostered to fly (all times local):
2200 March 1 to 0800 March 2
2200 March 3 to 0800 March 4
2200 March 5 to 0800 March 6
May Ms Bloggs be rostered to fly at all on 7 March?
I would have thought she may be rostered to fly from 2200 on 7 March, because 2200 on 7 March is the start of the 8th consecutive ‘SI day’ since 2200 on March 1.
However, if a ‘day’ means ‘midnight to midnight’, she can’t be rostered at all on 7 March, because all of March 7 is part of the 7 consecutive ‘days’ that started on March 1.
Ms Bloggs is rostered to fly (all times local):
2200 March 1 to 0800 March 2
2200 March 3 to 0800 March 4
2200 March 5 to 0800 March 6
May Ms Bloggs be rostered to fly at all on 7 March?
I would have thought she may be rostered to fly from 2200 on 7 March, because 2200 on 7 March is the start of the 8th consecutive ‘SI day’ since 2200 on March 1.
However, if a ‘day’ means ‘midnight to midnight’, she can’t be rostered at all on 7 March, because all of March 7 is part of the 7 consecutive ‘days’ that started on March 1.
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Creampuff, I just looked in my company docs and as part of the part viii exemption it clearly defines a day to mean from midnight local to midnight local.
A problem we have commonly is that when rostered for a Night shift from 6pm to 6am the following morning, it is technically 1 shift but 2 days so if you call in sick for that shift you lose 2 days of sick leave.
A problem we have commonly is that when rostered for a Night shift from 6pm to 6am the following morning, it is technically 1 shift but 2 days so if you call in sick for that shift you lose 2 days of sick leave.
Last edited by Harry Cooper; 31st Oct 2012 at 03:49.
thought she may be rostered to fly from 2200 on 7th March
By midnight to midnight definition, yes, you would breach if you started on the 7th.
By SI definition, 10pm on 7th is only the start of the sixth day. You still breach.
Bear with me.
1st 10pm to 2nd 9:59pm. 24hrs total (1 day)
2nd 10pm to 3rd 9:59pm. 48hrs total (2 days)
3rd 10pm to 4th 9:59pm. 72hrs total (3 days)
4th 10pm to 5th 9:59pm. 96hrs total (4 days)
5th 10pm to 6th 9:59pm. 120hrs total (5 days)
6th 10pm to 7th 9:59pm. 144hrs total (6 days)
7th 10pm up until 9:59pm in the 8th is still within 7 days. Bust.
I can't come up with any scenario where the SI definition is more limiting than the midnight one.
Anyone?
Last edited by MakeItHappenCaptain; 31st Oct 2012 at 13:22.