Atpl flight planning suspended
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
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Or we could go back to THE OLD system.Hold the exam 4 times a year always a completely new exam and you had to wait 2 months for your results.
Join Date: Nov 2012
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There's a petition here for CASA to remedy the unexplained 94% fail rate of over 100 ATPL candidates. 89 have signed it so far, please sign also if you agree:
Remedy unexplained 94% fail rate of over 100 ATPL candidates Petition
Remedy unexplained 94% fail rate of over 100 ATPL candidates Petition
Join Date: Nov 2012
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My reply to CASA:
I do understand CASA has these requirements for an ATPL candidate but surely more than 6% of the potential candidates can meet them. I currently hold a Commercial Pilots Licence and had a mid 90% average for all my CASA CPL exam subjects. I also hold a Bachelors degree in Aviation and never in all my studies I have come upon an exam this difficult to pass and I'm sure a lot of people are with me on this one.*
Like I said earlier if only 6% of candidates can pass this exam than there will be a significant shortage of ATPL qualified pilots in the near future which would be highly detrimental to not only Australian aviation but also World aviation which I believe is against CASA's interests.*
I do understand CASA needs to uphold a minimum requirement for their ATPL holders but surely a minimum requirement that only 6% of it's candidates can achieve is unreasonable and unsustainable.*
The Aviation Advertiser has now come out with this article, please take time to read it as I believe it sums up the situation pretty well
Testing to destruction – aviationadvertiser.com.au
The reply you did send me and obviously the author of this article and I'm sure many others, to me sounds like you are assuming the majority of the candiadates were cheating. I find it hard to believe that of the hundreds of people who sit this exam that the most of them would be cheating. For one I ask where would ALL these candidates get their cheat notes? If its assumed from a training school what about all the candidates that self study? And are all the training schools of this subject supplying cheat notes? And if this did happen why has only one person been caught? If cheating did occur frequently I'm sure it would have been picked up a lot earlier and by a lot more people. Don't let one person's actions reflect on the rest of the honest pilot community who use their annual leave and thousands of dollars of their own money to study extremely hard to pass this exam.
I believe it's only a matter of time until the wider public and politicians are aware of this issue so I hope a prompt and reasonable resolution can be made.
I do understand CASA has these requirements for an ATPL candidate but surely more than 6% of the potential candidates can meet them. I currently hold a Commercial Pilots Licence and had a mid 90% average for all my CASA CPL exam subjects. I also hold a Bachelors degree in Aviation and never in all my studies I have come upon an exam this difficult to pass and I'm sure a lot of people are with me on this one.*
Like I said earlier if only 6% of candidates can pass this exam than there will be a significant shortage of ATPL qualified pilots in the near future which would be highly detrimental to not only Australian aviation but also World aviation which I believe is against CASA's interests.*
I do understand CASA needs to uphold a minimum requirement for their ATPL holders but surely a minimum requirement that only 6% of it's candidates can achieve is unreasonable and unsustainable.*
The Aviation Advertiser has now come out with this article, please take time to read it as I believe it sums up the situation pretty well
Testing to destruction – aviationadvertiser.com.au
The reply you did send me and obviously the author of this article and I'm sure many others, to me sounds like you are assuming the majority of the candiadates were cheating. I find it hard to believe that of the hundreds of people who sit this exam that the most of them would be cheating. For one I ask where would ALL these candidates get their cheat notes? If its assumed from a training school what about all the candidates that self study? And are all the training schools of this subject supplying cheat notes? And if this did happen why has only one person been caught? If cheating did occur frequently I'm sure it would have been picked up a lot earlier and by a lot more people. Don't let one person's actions reflect on the rest of the honest pilot community who use their annual leave and thousands of dollars of their own money to study extremely hard to pass this exam.
I believe it's only a matter of time until the wider public and politicians are aware of this issue so I hope a prompt and reasonable resolution can be made.
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casa and the exam system
This problem has been about for a long time, extending to the 90's as well. I had three goes at the CPL exam, progressively becoming worse in my score, ultimately giving the exam up and going on to other things.
In things aviation, I have 15 renewals of my CIR and twin quals to PA31-350 level.
I have technical University qualifications [two degrees] and a post graduate adult education qualification and could not fathom at the time why casa and it's exam system was designed in such a way that it was "un-educational".
The issue is that - the "responsible" casa person at the time, when I questioned him, about one question, when we agreed that "a" and "b" were incorrect, a lengthy discussion ensued about the question and I said "d" was correct, he said "c" - ultimately, he fessed up and said the reason "c" was correct was that he wrote the question and "c" was correct.
I think that tells us a lot about the system, as it ensued that he had no adult education qualifications and was "of the opinion" that the students should not get their actual questions and answers back to improve the educational value.
Further, I had the exam re-marked and 5 questions [casa's answers were struck out as "incorrect"] or likely to be misleading.
I missed by one question.
The Future:
We must work towards a clear assessment system for aviation exams. The US-FAA system has an open system, with a "known exam question bank" with a set number asked on a random basis.
This enables the student to review his/ her understanding and where an obvious lack of understanding is present, a proper review can take place.
The system needs a very serious review now, with a proper educational basis for the questions to be made by a properly trained person, no ambiguity or double meanings, no purposeful making of answers to be misleading.
I believe that it is important for the new entrants to the industry not to start with a vexed view of the aviation regulator, over their flawed exam process.
If there is a training organisation "rorting" the system, the flight test routine, CAR 217 process and the renewal process [bi-annual and annual] will "weed out" those people, with the range of assessors that we all meet in our careers.
We need to address this and Paul Phelan's article goes a way to exposing the problems, as did Boyd Munro in the mid-90's, although the regulator did not keep to their side of the bargain:
To prevent this happening and improve the exam process, as was agreed to at the time.
Nothing has changed - Mr. casa!!
In things aviation, I have 15 renewals of my CIR and twin quals to PA31-350 level.
I have technical University qualifications [two degrees] and a post graduate adult education qualification and could not fathom at the time why casa and it's exam system was designed in such a way that it was "un-educational".
The issue is that - the "responsible" casa person at the time, when I questioned him, about one question, when we agreed that "a" and "b" were incorrect, a lengthy discussion ensued about the question and I said "d" was correct, he said "c" - ultimately, he fessed up and said the reason "c" was correct was that he wrote the question and "c" was correct.
I think that tells us a lot about the system, as it ensued that he had no adult education qualifications and was "of the opinion" that the students should not get their actual questions and answers back to improve the educational value.
Further, I had the exam re-marked and 5 questions [casa's answers were struck out as "incorrect"] or likely to be misleading.
I missed by one question.
The Future:
We must work towards a clear assessment system for aviation exams. The US-FAA system has an open system, with a "known exam question bank" with a set number asked on a random basis.
This enables the student to review his/ her understanding and where an obvious lack of understanding is present, a proper review can take place.
The system needs a very serious review now, with a proper educational basis for the questions to be made by a properly trained person, no ambiguity or double meanings, no purposeful making of answers to be misleading.
I believe that it is important for the new entrants to the industry not to start with a vexed view of the aviation regulator, over their flawed exam process.
If there is a training organisation "rorting" the system, the flight test routine, CAR 217 process and the renewal process [bi-annual and annual] will "weed out" those people, with the range of assessors that we all meet in our careers.
We need to address this and Paul Phelan's article goes a way to exposing the problems, as did Boyd Munro in the mid-90's, although the regulator did not keep to their side of the bargain:
To prevent this happening and improve the exam process, as was agreed to at the time.
Nothing has changed - Mr. casa!!
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"Open" question banks
I share others' low opinion of CASA's exam process.
However, there's no way that I would welcome an open question bank. If this happened, it would be possible to pass by buying a copy of the question bank and learning it. (I don't mean memorising every question, but memorising the ones that seem tricky to the reader.) No longer would it be necessary to actually study the syllabus, or attend ground school.
No. All that is necessary is to have the exams written and marked according to university standards. If a topic occupies 5% of the syllabus, it should form about 5% of the exam marks. If graphs provided are written in thick ink on poor quality paper, the acceptable answer range should be widened accordingly.
Not least, exam papers these days should be moderated by qualified experts in the field of education.
However, there's no way that I would welcome an open question bank. If this happened, it would be possible to pass by buying a copy of the question bank and learning it. (I don't mean memorising every question, but memorising the ones that seem tricky to the reader.) No longer would it be necessary to actually study the syllabus, or attend ground school.
No. All that is necessary is to have the exams written and marked according to university standards. If a topic occupies 5% of the syllabus, it should form about 5% of the exam marks. If graphs provided are written in thick ink on poor quality paper, the acceptable answer range should be widened accordingly.
Not least, exam papers these days should be moderated by qualified experts in the field of education.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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I heard the same thing as Coolridge.
I sat the exam last week and failed miserably. I self studied using a couple of different text and knew the content well. The exams questions were nothing new and I was comfortable tackling each questions. There were three questions that I was unsure of the answer as accuracy led me to two possibilities, but this certainly wasn't enough to fail. As far as I'm concerned it's an exam you get 100% in provided you know your stuff and are accurate.
There have been a lot of complaints going around and CASA are yet to answer peoples questions. A lot of theory providers are in the same boat, they don't know whether casa have changed the method or if there has been a stuff up on casa's end with the updated exam.
For those who are thinking of sitting the exams I would recommend sitting tight until casa has resolved the problem, because in my opinion you'd be damn lucky to pass and you may as well select answers at random as you'll probably go just as well.
I sat the exam last week and failed miserably. I self studied using a couple of different text and knew the content well. The exams questions were nothing new and I was comfortable tackling each questions. There were three questions that I was unsure of the answer as accuracy led me to two possibilities, but this certainly wasn't enough to fail. As far as I'm concerned it's an exam you get 100% in provided you know your stuff and are accurate.
There have been a lot of complaints going around and CASA are yet to answer peoples questions. A lot of theory providers are in the same boat, they don't know whether casa have changed the method or if there has been a stuff up on casa's end with the updated exam.
For those who are thinking of sitting the exams I would recommend sitting tight until casa has resolved the problem, because in my opinion you'd be damn lucky to pass and you may as well select answers at random as you'll probably go just as well.
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Has anyone heard about CASA remarking some exams and finding that it was actually a pass? Trying to find out if these people appealed their results or if it was something that casa discovered....
Any infor would be great
Any infor would be great
Oh Dear Mr 'HH',
How about strolling up to the Briefing Office at your local Secondary Airport, and picking up a new set of FREE VTC's, VNC's, ERC's,...oh, and a couple of WAC's please....the WAC's were less than $2 each...Here's $10.
Get me 5 please.
Keep the change....
Ha Ha Ha.....
How about strolling up to the Briefing Office at your local Secondary Airport, and picking up a new set of FREE VTC's, VNC's, ERC's,...oh, and a couple of WAC's please....the WAC's were less than $2 each...Here's $10.
Get me 5 please.
Keep the change....
Ha Ha Ha.....
