AFAP Jobs page
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Two problems with this - quite a few Kiwi and other Asia Pacific companies have advertised for crew on AFAP, which makes sense when you think regionally. However as a Kiwi, there is no way I'm going to join AFAP at this juncture just to see job ads. NZALPA maybe... but only maybe. And I'm not anti-union either, having been in one for 20 years.
Second problem is that nobody outside Oz is going to advertise with them now, which is, I suppose, a loss to us all.
AFAP would be doing themselves a big favour if they just left it the way it was. They are unlikely to make much money out of people signing up to see the ads, and anything they make will be offset by the loss of advertising revenue.
Just a little bit silly...
Second problem is that nobody outside Oz is going to advertise with them now, which is, I suppose, a loss to us all.
AFAP would be doing themselves a big favour if they just left it the way it was. They are unlikely to make much money out of people signing up to see the ads, and anything they make will be offset by the loss of advertising revenue.
Just a little bit silly...
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V-XXX
Therein lays the argument, doesn't it.
So all job seeker's can access the Saturdays Aussie, rather than our AFAP website.
"Subscribe to the Aussie, you may never have a reason to look at the AFAP website again!"
Therein lays the argument, doesn't it.
So all job seeker's can access the Saturdays Aussie, rather than our AFAP website.
"Subscribe to the Aussie, you may never have a reason to look at the AFAP website again!"
Last edited by squarebear; 6th Sep 2012 at 11:09.
Seems like a big fuss for what appears to be a minor technical issue with the website, particularly a website that provides a free content in this case.
As for the should I join or not group, Union membership has plenty of benefits for a small tax deductible fee that varies with pay and employment status. It is always your decision to join or not, however considering the cost vs benefit ratio it is always my strong advice to join.
Access to the MBF is by far the best value for money out there. Show me a loss of licence insurance that compares to the MBF, particularly for a young junior pilot and I will buy you a beer. If you stay with them for your career (and in most cases the costs are covered in your EBA) then they give you your money back when you retire. Yes all of it. If you join at 20 you are looking at a lump sum of $40K+ into your retirement drinking fund.
Or if god forbid you prang an aircraft not only well the AFAP jump in and protect you from the dodgy operator who is blaming you for the engine failure, but the MBF will be covering your loss of medical with a payout that would most likely dwarf you current GA pay($9K a month). If you then lost your medical for good you wouldn't have to worry about the family or mortgage as for an under 30 or so pilot you are looking at picking up $800,000. That's not for a loss of ability to make an income but for a loss of aviation medical, you could go back to work on the ground the next day and they would still pay out. Try comparing that to standard loss of income insurance.
Don't believe me? Australian Air Pilots Mutual Benefit Fund Please look, I am more than happy to be corrected if you can quote it from the MBF
.
As for the should I join or not group, Union membership has plenty of benefits for a small tax deductible fee that varies with pay and employment status. It is always your decision to join or not, however considering the cost vs benefit ratio it is always my strong advice to join.
Access to the MBF is by far the best value for money out there. Show me a loss of licence insurance that compares to the MBF, particularly for a young junior pilot and I will buy you a beer. If you stay with them for your career (and in most cases the costs are covered in your EBA) then they give you your money back when you retire. Yes all of it. If you join at 20 you are looking at a lump sum of $40K+ into your retirement drinking fund.
Or if god forbid you prang an aircraft not only well the AFAP jump in and protect you from the dodgy operator who is blaming you for the engine failure, but the MBF will be covering your loss of medical with a payout that would most likely dwarf you current GA pay($9K a month). If you then lost your medical for good you wouldn't have to worry about the family or mortgage as for an under 30 or so pilot you are looking at picking up $800,000. That's not for a loss of ability to make an income but for a loss of aviation medical, you could go back to work on the ground the next day and they would still pay out. Try comparing that to standard loss of income insurance.
Don't believe me? Australian Air Pilots Mutual Benefit Fund Please look, I am more than happy to be corrected if you can quote it from the MBF
.
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j3pipercub
You are totally out of order here mate. You come arcoss like one of those pilots who hides behind seniority and the union to cover his own shortcomings. You'd do the union a favour by toning down your retoric if increasing union membership is your goal.
I agree with the others, the job page should be free. The more pilots that are employed, the more potential union members there are. I agree there are many benifits to joining, and maybe dangling a carrot (like the jobs page) is a way to lure new members closer.
Providing a few services for free encourages a sence of good will within the comunity, and the trickle down effects can be quite benificial.
You are totally out of order here mate. You come arcoss like one of those pilots who hides behind seniority and the union to cover his own shortcomings. You'd do the union a favour by toning down your retoric if increasing union membership is your goal.
I agree with the others, the job page should be free. The more pilots that are employed, the more potential union members there are. I agree there are many benifits to joining, and maybe dangling a carrot (like the jobs page) is a way to lure new members closer.
Providing a few services for free encourages a sence of good will within the comunity, and the trickle down effects can be quite benificial.
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I'm with J3 I know where you are coming from....
I notice a few threads stating Saturdays Australian. It's actually Fridays the last time I checked. There are a lot of overseas pilot job websites that actually charge you to become a member.
As a member for AFAP, I see this as a added bonus. It does not cost much to be a member, there is even a rate for pilots without a job
By the time a pilot heads down to the pub with mates, gets on it and gets a cab home, via the kebab.....Bingo, there's your fee. (unemployed pilots fee).
A union has it's place in every industry. It's helped me and fellow friends.
I will ring AFAP just to make sure if they have blocked the jobs page or not?
Have a good weekend
I know where you are coming from....I notice a few threads stating Saturdays Australian. It's actually Fridays the last time I checked. There are a lot of overseas pilot job websites that actually charge you to become a member.
As a member for AFAP, I see this as a added bonus. It does not cost much to be a member, there is even a rate for pilots without a job
By the time a pilot heads down to the pub with mates, gets on it and gets a cab home, via the kebab.....Bingo, there's your fee. (unemployed pilots fee).
A union has it's place in every industry. It's helped me and fellow friends.
I will ring AFAP just to make sure if they have blocked the jobs page or not?
Have a good weekend
Terribly accurate observation there Coyote, all I need now is to find employment with a company that has seniority.
As for the out of order statement, I would suggest that the non union members expecting the page to remain free are perhaps slightly more out of order. Are you an AFAP member Coyote?
My rhetoric is a result of frustration at the freeloading attitude that is pervasive in aviation. I'll bet some here think the AFAP controls the Award.
Furthermore, keeping the page free will not 'lure more members' or create a 'sense of goodwill'. It is plain to see that the indignation and prostestation of some on here, that it is considered a given the page should be free. Why would freeloaders pay for something voluntarily when they can view it for free? Furthermore, if keeping the page free was attracting members, then why would the AFAP change it? Wouldn't that be to their detriment as opposed to their benefit?
No, by making the page members only, I think you may actually boost the membership by forcing the freeloading pissants to get off their arse, spend a weekend out of the bars, and spending that money on something productive, Union membership.
j3
As for the out of order statement, I would suggest that the non union members expecting the page to remain free are perhaps slightly more out of order. Are you an AFAP member Coyote?
My rhetoric is a result of frustration at the freeloading attitude that is pervasive in aviation. I'll bet some here think the AFAP controls the Award.
Furthermore, keeping the page free will not 'lure more members' or create a 'sense of goodwill'. It is plain to see that the indignation and prostestation of some on here, that it is considered a given the page should be free. Why would freeloaders pay for something voluntarily when they can view it for free? Furthermore, if keeping the page free was attracting members, then why would the AFAP change it? Wouldn't that be to their detriment as opposed to their benefit?
No, by making the page members only, I think you may actually boost the membership by forcing the freeloading pissants to get off their arse, spend a weekend out of the bars, and spending that money on something productive, Union membership.
j3
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the freeloading attitude that is pervasive in aviation
Life is peachy for those in established airlines, but for folk looking for the sort of job advertised on AFAP... it's normally the reverse.
It's their train set and they can do what they want with it, of course, but this latest move seems somewhat mean-spirited. It's obviously not a website glitch, it's a deliberate policy.
Must be time for a new player to emerge in the employment scene...
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I have to agree with Remoak here, I don't think free loading is the issure here. Most of the free loading I see is work shy union members moaning that they don't get what they deserve. P3's attitude reminds me of those news reports from the '70, with all the car assemblers standing aroung a brazier rather than actually doing any work.
No I'm not an AFAP member. I'm an Expat pilot, and have been for many, many years now, but I still keep an eye on things back there. And this kind of whinging keeps me away (probably to his pleasure).
Some one else will pick up the ball here. I don't think anyone should pay to look at a job advertisment, especially not pilots. New pilots get gouged enough already. everyone's out to make a dollar off an unemployed pilot. Some good will will go a long way.
No I'm not an AFAP member. I'm an Expat pilot, and have been for many, many years now, but I still keep an eye on things back there. And this kind of whinging keeps me away (probably to his pleasure).
Some one else will pick up the ball here. I don't think anyone should pay to look at a job advertisment, especially not pilots. New pilots get gouged enough already. everyone's out to make a dollar off an unemployed pilot. Some good will will go a long way.
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Pathetic
Seriously, you guys need to spend less time on Prune and more time looking for solutions to 'problems'.
One phone call from me to the AFAP this morning confirmed that the jobs page is open to non-members!
It obviously was a website glitch. If you're still having problems acessing, I suggest you either refresh the page or clear your internet history and try again.
DIVOSH!
One phone call from me to the AFAP this morning confirmed that the jobs page is open to non-members!
It's obviously not a website glitch, it's a deliberate policy.
DIVOSH!
Thread Starter
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can also confirm that this page is indeed open to non-members after recent communication..
however for most of yesterday, it was locked out for some reason.
j3, have you let ur union know your concerns on having this page open to 'freeloading pissant' fellow pilots? they may just listen to you, or most likely will not.
good news for most.. and if this jobs page does help me land my 1st gig, i will be the 1st to phone afap and thank them for providing me that service
have a good day all.
however for most of yesterday, it was locked out for some reason.
j3, have you let ur union know your concerns on having this page open to 'freeloading pissant' fellow pilots? they may just listen to you, or most likely will not.
good news for most.. and if this jobs page does help me land my 1st gig, i will be the 1st to phone afap and thank them for providing me that service
have a good day all.
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Hello VH-XXX,
We have had a few issues with the page recently. It should now be accessible. Let me know if you require anyfurther assistance.
Regards,
Lennie (@ AFAP)
We have had a few issues with the page recently. It should now be accessible. Let me know if you require anyfurther assistance.
Regards,
Lennie (@ AFAP)
.... say no more.
Last edited by VH-XXX; 7th Sep 2012 at 02:04.
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AFAP WEB PAGE IS OPEN TO ALL
Thanks to the members who pointed out this thread and its bashing of the Feds for a service we provide to all pilots.
For the record there is a glitch with the provider which is being worked on and i do not have a timeframe when it will be rectified. The problem appears not to affect all at this point.
The Federation does have a policy to leave the page for access to anybody with an interest. Being the instigator of this page, the policy and administrator of it for quite a number of years I am more than disappointed at the actions of some in trying to discredit the Federation for the technical issue.
It has been effective in bringing together good information including recognition from the employers in getting results for their job ads.
Please continue to support the page and for those with a real interest in their fellow pilots (in every area of aviation) the Federation and the work that we do on your behalf. I look forward to more positive responses once the page is operational again.
Lawrie Cox
Manager - industrial Relations
Australian Federation of Air Pilots
For the record there is a glitch with the provider which is being worked on and i do not have a timeframe when it will be rectified. The problem appears not to affect all at this point.
The Federation does have a policy to leave the page for access to anybody with an interest. Being the instigator of this page, the policy and administrator of it for quite a number of years I am more than disappointed at the actions of some in trying to discredit the Federation for the technical issue.
It has been effective in bringing together good information including recognition from the employers in getting results for their job ads.
Please continue to support the page and for those with a real interest in their fellow pilots (in every area of aviation) the Federation and the work that we do on your behalf. I look forward to more positive responses once the page is operational again.
Lawrie Cox
Manager - industrial Relations
Australian Federation of Air Pilots
Last edited by Lawrie Cox; 7th Sep 2012 at 02:09.
propelled,
I thought you weren't contributing to this thread anymore? And if you do ring to thank them (which I doubt), why not pay it forward and support the organisation that helped you.
For the record, there may come a time in your career when you NEED the assistance of the AFAP. Be it an Industrial issue or an accident/incident. Be aware the AFAP have a 3 month waiting period, to prevent people joining up and instantly requesting assistance. Just keep that in mind for the future.
Lawrie obviously believes that keeping this part of the website free to all is a good idea. I will defer to his decades of experience in the AFAP, aviation and being a good bloke.
What I took and continue to take issue with is the expectation that the page should be free
. It is like the old adage, if you do something for someone three times in a row voluntarily, it becomes an expectation rather than a favour.
j3
And to whoever corrected my spelling, didn't catch your username, but touche, it was quite a fowl oversight...
I thought you weren't contributing to this thread anymore? And if you do ring to thank them (which I doubt), why not pay it forward and support the organisation that helped you.
For the record, there may come a time in your career when you NEED the assistance of the AFAP. Be it an Industrial issue or an accident/incident. Be aware the AFAP have a 3 month waiting period, to prevent people joining up and instantly requesting assistance. Just keep that in mind for the future.
Lawrie obviously believes that keeping this part of the website free to all is a good idea. I will defer to his decades of experience in the AFAP, aviation and being a good bloke.
What I took and continue to take issue with is the expectation that the page should be free
. It is like the old adage, if you do something for someone three times in a row voluntarily, it becomes an expectation rather than a favour.j3
And to whoever corrected my spelling, didn't catch your username, but touche, it was quite a fowl oversight...
Last edited by j3pipercub; 7th Sep 2012 at 06:20.