YPJT landing opposite way on 06R today
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YPJT landing opposite way on 06R today
Not major news, but I saw a really hairy landing today at Jandakot. Either a 177 or a 210 looks like did a turn back after efato and had a wild ride back in with 30 knots or so up their butt and just made it in on 6r after a series of seriously hairy turns, somehow landing and skidding up to the keys. Certainly got our attention, anyone know what actually went down?
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YES as it happens, either a 177 or a 210 did a turn back after efato and had a wild ride back in with 30 knots or so up their butt and just made it in on 6r after a series of seriously hairy turns, somehow landing and skidding up to the keys.
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Thanks, I've never flown in Cambodia, but in Australia we're trained a little differently and what a few of us saw today was a little out of the box. If you're gonna take the piss the "what went down" comment was pretty obvious (the plane is the answer there if you didn't figure that out champ).
well he is damn lucky he made it back!<<<<
It should be pointed out that he actually ran out of runway on the turn back, and ended up in the grass. I'm not sure if turning back and eating up 1150 m of runway can quite be regarded as damn lucky. I don't think many people teach turn backs at Jandakot, but there are not many landing options on upwind of 06L so I think he made the right decision (however, it looked to me like the a/c taxied back to the apron under its own steam, so we can query what the actual cause of the 'failure' was).
It should be pointed out that he actually ran out of runway on the turn back, and ended up in the grass. I'm not sure if turning back and eating up 1150 m of runway can quite be regarded as damn lucky. I don't think many people teach turn backs at Jandakot, but there are not many landing options on upwind of 06L so I think he made the right decision (however, it looked to me like the a/c taxied back to the apron under its own steam, so we can query what the actual cause of the 'failure' was).
I'm not far off completing my PPL @ YPJT and it was drummed into us to never attempt a turn back on engine failure after takeoff...
Ask whoever's training you what the turnback decision-height is...
Turnback decision height is the height you judge you need to do a 180 without spinning in! My one and only engine failure was at YSBK taking off from 11C at night many years ago, at around 400 feet. All I could see were the lights of Sydney ahead and no safe dark patches. So did a 180 with stall warning going off all the time and landed safely back on 29C. Luckily no significant wind or traffic! Engine was full of black treakle which several years later was diagnosed as being due to a dodgy fuel addititive that caused a number of engine failures around Sydney.
Powerlines or not i would take 20kts g/s upwind over 80kts g/s downwind at touchdown.
Kinetic energy in this case is 16 times greater downwind.
Kinetic energy in this case is 16 times greater downwind.
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Whatever the initial cockup, sounds like he/she did a good job in the end, although a little extra training in energy management, sideslip or other things may have helped with the over run.
Otherwise a good effort.
500 hours of education in one takeoff.... Some things money can't buy!
Otherwise a good effort.
500 hours of education in one takeoff.... Some things money can't buy!
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For all those that think that turning back after an engine failure at T/O is a chance to be taken, have a look at this very sobering video of how easily it can kill you. There is only one or two seconds from the stall/spin to impact, hardly enough time to say "Oh shi......."
The link below will bring up a page with two video selections. Click on the left hand side snapshot of what appears to be overlooking a school quadrangle. The aircraft will rise into view from left to right.
Stall/Spin Turnback
It's a difficult choice and I hope I never have to choose, but I always remind myself as I open the throttle that up until 500' AGL an EFATO means straight ahead with limited deviations to clear major obstacles. A stall/spin has a 99.9% chance of being fatal, whereas a controlled off field landing will improve your chance of survival.
The link below will bring up a page with two video selections. Click on the left hand side snapshot of what appears to be overlooking a school quadrangle. The aircraft will rise into view from left to right.
Stall/Spin Turnback
It's a difficult choice and I hope I never have to choose, but I always remind myself as I open the throttle that up until 500' AGL an EFATO means straight ahead with limited deviations to clear major obstacles. A stall/spin has a 99.9% chance of being fatal, whereas a controlled off field landing will improve your chance of survival.
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Know your aeroplane, know your options, do some practise carefully so you know how to execute your options in your aeroplane.
Know your aeroplane
Know your aeroplane.......
Know your aeroplane
Know your aeroplane.......
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Always taught never turn back, this guy did, made it, and considering he was at right angles to the runway, half way down the runway at less than 100ft, still managed to hook it right (although that wingtip got bloody close to the ground a couple of times, bout a ft or so) and land with all that wind behind him - I'd pay serious coin to see that come off they way it did without crashing a second time - but again he made it...
The bit I also think about pre takeoff if you really think you can make it back is traffic... Had it of been a busy day with 6 in the circut, chopper's doing that weird **** choppers do over the grass, and a first solo student in a grob on short final, I reckon he would have been completely screwed. Perhaps that is another reason you are taught never turn back - could also just as easily hit a house I guess on the other hand and take out a family that way. Maybe this guy considered all of this and it helped make the decision to turn back?
I think I've just confused my self more, I'm still 50/50 on the turn back thing, particularly after seeing this, maybe...
Anyone know what happened to cause the turn back yet, particularly after the post saying he made it back on the ground under his own steam, didn't accidently switch the fuel off or something?
P.S. awaiting ridicule from the cambodian Pilot,I'm sure I've made plenty of stupid comments in this one!
The bit I also think about pre takeoff if you really think you can make it back is traffic... Had it of been a busy day with 6 in the circut, chopper's doing that weird **** choppers do over the grass, and a first solo student in a grob on short final, I reckon he would have been completely screwed. Perhaps that is another reason you are taught never turn back - could also just as easily hit a house I guess on the other hand and take out a family that way. Maybe this guy considered all of this and it helped make the decision to turn back?
I think I've just confused my self more, I'm still 50/50 on the turn back thing, particularly after seeing this, maybe...
Anyone know what happened to cause the turn back yet, particularly after the post saying he made it back on the ground under his own steam, didn't accidently switch the fuel off or something?
P.S. awaiting ridicule from the cambodian Pilot,I'm sure I've made plenty of stupid comments in this one!
Last edited by RR69; 29th Aug 2012 at 11:11.
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While instructing some years ago I was lucky enough to have a very experienced and senior instructor teach me a lot about turn backs. Would you do it given you had clear areas or water available? No - but most of our capital city, ga and a lot of regional airports leave you with little options.
Knowing your aircrafts performance is vital - as is knowing what you'll do and when before you take off.
It's much better going off the end at 10-20kt ground speed then through a roof or taking out power lines at 45kts. It's also a better option then trying to land on a 80m long netball court with metal poles all over it as I was first taught (at a time in my flying when landing accurately on a 1100m runway was still a challenge!!)
Both schools I taught at demonstrated the maneuver and taught handling at higher/safer altitudes.
For the poster above with the spin videos -there's many more examples of forced landings into unrealistic places being stuffed up (or having the only end outcome possible). Sometimes the "never do this" option is the best one.... Have a plan an keep all the options only.
Knowing your aircrafts performance is vital - as is knowing what you'll do and when before you take off.
It's much better going off the end at 10-20kt ground speed then through a roof or taking out power lines at 45kts. It's also a better option then trying to land on a 80m long netball court with metal poles all over it as I was first taught (at a time in my flying when landing accurately on a 1100m runway was still a challenge!!)
Both schools I taught at demonstrated the maneuver and taught handling at higher/safer altitudes.
For the poster above with the spin videos -there's many more examples of forced landings into unrealistic places being stuffed up (or having the only end outcome possible). Sometimes the "never do this" option is the best one.... Have a plan an keep all the options only.
