NAIPS and NAIPS for Windows and AIS/MET Changes
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NIS is upgrading..........Oh really!
Well implemented.............really well implemented.
For all those trying to access weather, notams and submit a flight plan early this morning..........what an exercise in futility. Thank you Airservices for re-enforcing my opinion of your quality and Industry usefulness.
Ever considered sub-contracting out this service to an organisation that knows what it's doing!!!
If you were an "App" - you wouldn't get a rating!
For all those trying to access weather, notams and submit a flight plan early this morning..........what an exercise in futility. Thank you Airservices for re-enforcing my opinion of your quality and Industry usefulness.
Ever considered sub-contracting out this service to an organisation that knows what it's doing!!!
If you were an "App" - you wouldn't get a rating!
For all those trying to access weather, notams and submit a flight plan early this morning..........what an exercise in futility.
I also note that NFW is still working.
So what's the problem?
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Command Flight Planner
In case anyone is still struggling in Command Flight Planner (after assuming AsA got it right and switching) there are some instructions for switching back to the old NAIPS interface accessible from the front page of the Command Software Web site.
I share Bevan's concerns about the compressed time frame for the flight plan changes. I have it coded, customers can update their aircraft profiles in preparation, and I expect it to work but I don't have the degree of confidence I'd like.
I won't be surprised if the two change events merge into one on 11 Nov but there's been no word yet. The global go live date for the new FPL is 15 Nov, so there is little wiggle room without being exposed to international problems.
I share Bevan's concerns about the compressed time frame for the flight plan changes. I have it coded, customers can update their aircraft profiles in preparation, and I expect it to work but I don't have the degree of confidence I'd like.
I won't be surprised if the two change events merge into one on 11 Nov but there's been no word yet. The global go live date for the new FPL is 15 Nov, so there is little wiggle room without being exposed to international problems.
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I imagine there may have been a time where the roll back to the old system had not yet been completed, so you couldn't use that, nor the new one.
While not an excuse, these backend systems are VERY old.
Just for a laugh: when "new NAIPS" comes online, you will be able to submit flight plans many days in advance. Although I can't remember the number, ICAO set a minimum and many ANSPs around the world have decided to only support the minimum because of storage concerns. (NOT AsA, they are allowing more!)
Yes, good chance some of them are running these systems on ancient mainframes or mini computers with storage measured in megabytes.
If it ain't broken, don't upgrade it it, I guess.
While not an excuse, these backend systems are VERY old.
Just for a laugh: when "new NAIPS" comes online, you will be able to submit flight plans many days in advance. Although I can't remember the number, ICAO set a minimum and many ANSPs around the world have decided to only support the minimum because of storage concerns. (NOT AsA, they are allowing more!)
Yes, good chance some of them are running these systems on ancient mainframes or mini computers with storage measured in megabytes.
If it ain't broken, don't upgrade it it, I guess.
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Current AIP ENR 1.10-16 AIP Time of Departure; Requirements states:
“ETSs more than 7 days in advance at the time of notification cannot be accepted”
Yes sports fans, you can submit now up to 7 days in advance and have been able to do so for years.
ICAO doc. 4444 amendment 1 ICAO 4444 amd 1 says "4.4.2.1.1 Flight plans shall not be submitted more than 120 hours before the estimated off-block
time of a flight."
“ETSs more than 7 days in advance at the time of notification cannot be accepted”
Yes sports fans, you can submit now up to 7 days in advance and have been able to do so for years.
ICAO doc. 4444 amendment 1 ICAO 4444 amd 1 says "4.4.2.1.1 Flight plans shall not be submitted more than 120 hours before the estimated off-block
time of a flight."
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That AIP reference seems to be in regards to filling out the paper form somehow sending that to them, but can you direct into NAIPS? I entered ETD as 291500, and this was the response:
Now which 1500 is that? Unless it is truncating the "29" in output only, did it accept it for today, not tomorrow?
As a side note: it seems NAIPS has stopped accepting any registrations that are not 3 letters. ("4467" resulted in "registration not known") Better 'ava word...
Your flight notification as shown below has been accepted:
Flight Details:
(FPL-NOSEND-VG
-EVSS/L-V/C
-YGAW1500
-N0090A025 DCT
-YMBD0030
-REG/ABC PER/A)
(SPL-NOSEND-YGAW1500
-YMBD0030
-E/0400 P/1 R/E A/WHITE C/BAS SCHEFFERS X/0401 234 567)
Flight Details:
(FPL-NOSEND-VG
-EVSS/L-V/C
-YGAW1500
-N0090A025 DCT
-YMBD0030
-REG/ABC PER/A)
(SPL-NOSEND-YGAW1500
-YMBD0030
-E/0400 P/1 R/E A/WHITE C/BAS SCHEFFERS X/0401 234 567)
As a side note: it seems NAIPS has stopped accepting any registrations that are not 3 letters. ("4467" resulted in "registration not known") Better 'ava word...
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And as an anecdote: I do recall hearing an exchange between an aircraft and Parafield ground regarding a flight plan that could not be found. It had been submitted to NAIPS more than 24 hours ago...
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I remember the debacle of the original NAIPS introduction. I guess the old rumour that NAIPS stands for Not Actually Intended to Provide a Service may have been true after all.
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Now which 1500 is that? Unless it is truncating the "29" in output only, did it accept it for today, not tomorrow?
The new FPL message has provision for a date-of-flight that uses an Item 18 DOF/ tag in the submitted plan to indicate the date in combo with the existing ETD (renamed estimated off-blocks time EOBT). A sample message will look like:
Code:
(FPL-QFA557-IS -A332/H-SDE2E3FGHIJ2J4J5M1RWYZ/B1D1L -YSSY0210 -M081F400 DCT KAT A576 PKS J141 KG Q41 HAMTN Q158 PH DCT -PBN/A1B1D1L1 NAV/GPSRNAV TCAS DOF/121031 REG/VHEBH SEL/FGAK PER/C RIF/SEVSI J141 FRT N640 AD YPAD
AsA still have to implement a store-and-forward system because some parties (e.g. the FAA) have decided they still will not accept plans in advance of 24 hours.
Last edited by ChrisW67; 28th Oct 2012 at 22:23.
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Spot on ChrisW67 
Baswell,
Both the Pilot Briefing Service and NAIPS for Windows will allow you to enter 6 digit ETD in the format DDHHMM and have done so for quite a few years.
NAIPS will assume that the next instance of that DDHHMM is what you intend as the ETD and will assign a YY and MM to it to form a full 10 digit DTG for your ETD.
If you don’t include the DD in the ETD, NAIPS will also assign that as part of the process. So, if you submit a HHMM that is say 15 mins in the future, NAIPS will see that and distribute immediately. Additionally, if you submit a flight plan with an ETD that is LESS THAN 15 in the past, e.g. ETD for a time say 10 mins ago, NAIPS will immediately send that on.
However, if your ETD is GREATER than 21 hours in the future, NAIPS will store that flight plan internally and send it out to the relevant ATC systems when the ETD is LESS THAN OR EQUAL to 21 hrs. This is because the way that ATC systems process flight plan data.
One of the problems with this assumption of dates is that if the submitter sends in an ETD greater than 15 mins in the past ignorant of the current time, NAIPS will assume that the next instance of that time (i.e. tomorrow’s date but same time) and hang onto it……..and if that “next day” involves end of month and end of year dates, the error is magnified.
The acceptance message you see and have provided for NOSEND, is the actual message that is sent out over the AFTN that may go internationally as well as domestically. (AFTN Wiki)
This is a world wide format defined by ICAO and you correctly note that the ETD is only HHMM in that message; because ICAO says so!
With ICAO 2012 flight plan changes ICAO is redefining the flight plan and including a range of new equipment items and is also changing the ETD to DOF and EOBT.
ETD will be no more as it will become Estimate Off Blocks Time (EOBT) and the flight plan may include a date field called Date of Flight (DOF). From what I see of NIS, the date field has already been included in the system.
On your question of 3 letter rego….”ABC” is not your aircraft rego…..”VHABC” is. When you submit details, NAIPS does quick check of rego against type with information sourced from the avcharges section and will present advice if it does not marry up. Hit the submit button again to force through the plan.
Baswell,
Both the Pilot Briefing Service and NAIPS for Windows will allow you to enter 6 digit ETD in the format DDHHMM and have done so for quite a few years.
NAIPS will assume that the next instance of that DDHHMM is what you intend as the ETD and will assign a YY and MM to it to form a full 10 digit DTG for your ETD.
If you don’t include the DD in the ETD, NAIPS will also assign that as part of the process. So, if you submit a HHMM that is say 15 mins in the future, NAIPS will see that and distribute immediately. Additionally, if you submit a flight plan with an ETD that is LESS THAN 15 in the past, e.g. ETD for a time say 10 mins ago, NAIPS will immediately send that on.
However, if your ETD is GREATER than 21 hours in the future, NAIPS will store that flight plan internally and send it out to the relevant ATC systems when the ETD is LESS THAN OR EQUAL to 21 hrs. This is because the way that ATC systems process flight plan data.
One of the problems with this assumption of dates is that if the submitter sends in an ETD greater than 15 mins in the past ignorant of the current time, NAIPS will assume that the next instance of that time (i.e. tomorrow’s date but same time) and hang onto it……..and if that “next day” involves end of month and end of year dates, the error is magnified.
The acceptance message you see and have provided for NOSEND, is the actual message that is sent out over the AFTN that may go internationally as well as domestically. (AFTN Wiki)
This is a world wide format defined by ICAO and you correctly note that the ETD is only HHMM in that message; because ICAO says so!
With ICAO 2012 flight plan changes ICAO is redefining the flight plan and including a range of new equipment items and is also changing the ETD to DOF and EOBT.
ETD will be no more as it will become Estimate Off Blocks Time (EOBT) and the flight plan may include a date field called Date of Flight (DOF). From what I see of NIS, the date field has already been included in the system.
On your question of 3 letter rego….”ABC” is not your aircraft rego…..”VHABC” is. When you submit details, NAIPS does quick check of rego against type with information sourced from the avcharges section and will present advice if it does not marry up. Hit the submit button again to force through the plan.
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and if that “next day” involves end of month and end of year dates, the error is magnified.
The new API requires us to send a full, valid date string, not DTG. (e.g.: '2012-10-29T10:43:00.000') Since we still want to accept DTG in NAIPS for iPhone, that means we have to parse this and take care of this roll-over handling ourselves.
We get to have another go on Thursday morning! Yay!
31 October 2012 (1100UTC- 1800UTC): Airservices new NAIPS Internet Service (NIS) will be released. This will see the decommissioning of NAIPS for Windows and Scheduler and the retirement of AIS/MET. Main changes will include the look and feel of the user interface and improved functionality. Further information is available at Airservices Pilot Briefing Services | Airservices
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ymmm c6464/12
electronic briefing and submission of flt notifications not avbl
due naips internet service (nis) installation and commissioning
the flw facilities not avbl:
-internet briefing and flt notification submission
-avfax/metbrief
-operational information via flightwatch
-stored flt files held in naips
-internet met and notam briefing fm the aismet system
the flw facilities are avbl:
-phoneaway card phone and fax submission of flt notifications 1800
805 150
-bureau of meteorology aviation weather briefing at
Aviation Weather Services
flight notifications held as naips files with an etd prior to 1800utc
should be lodged before 1000utc
from 10 311100 to 10 311800
electronic briefing and submission of flt notifications not avbl
due naips internet service (nis) installation and commissioning
the flw facilities not avbl:
-internet briefing and flt notification submission
-avfax/metbrief
-operational information via flightwatch
-stored flt files held in naips
-internet met and notam briefing fm the aismet system
the flw facilities are avbl:
-phoneaway card phone and fax submission of flt notifications 1800
805 150
-bureau of meteorology aviation weather briefing at
Aviation Weather Services
flight notifications held as naips files with an etd prior to 1800utc
should be lodged before 1000utc
from 10 311100 to 10 311800
I can't find the NOTAM anywhere, has it been withdrawn? I have noticed a lot of weird things happening while using NAIPS over the last couple of days. For example, NOTAMs showing up on a location briefing, but not a SPFIB for the same aerodrome.
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NAIPS Location Brief for YMMM and change the default period to 50 hrs (default is 24 and it can go out to 240.
SPFIB is the same, default is 24hrs but can go out to 240 if you tell it to.
AIS/MET system does not filter on time.
SPFIB is the same, default is 24hrs but can go out to 240 if you tell it to.
AIS/MET system does not filter on time.
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Well, "NIS" is live.
But for now it seems they forgot one tiny little detail. Their firewall is rejecting calls to the URLs our Apps need to be using. While they tried the roll-out on Saturday, I noticed this and warned them that still needed to be done. 5 days later...
So no AvPlan/NAIPS for iPhone/OzRunways access until they wake up and find someone to fix it.
Our contacts are not answering their phones, if anyone knows a contact for Margaret Staib, feel free to let her know your displeasure.
But for now it seems they forgot one tiny little detail. Their firewall is rejecting calls to the URLs our Apps need to be using. While they tried the roll-out on Saturday, I noticed this and warned them that still needed to be done. 5 days later...
So no AvPlan/NAIPS for iPhone/OzRunways access until they wake up and find someone to fix it.
Our contacts are not answering their phones, if anyone knows a contact for Margaret Staib, feel free to let her know your displeasure.
Last edited by baswell; 31st Oct 2012 at 20:42.