Line training rank
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On the equator
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Line training rank
In Asia, it's common for new airline recruits undergoing line training to wear 1 bar during the training and when checked to line, they then wear two bars. Is this the case with airlines in Australia? Just curious as I've not seen too many pilots with one bar in Australia.
There was a day when it was thus. You got two when you got your Senior Commercial, two and a half for a DC3 command, three for a heavy turbo prop command and four with a heavy jet command.
Nowadays I see guys in the recreational movement (ultralights fer chrissake) wearing four.
I think it may have been Ernest K Gann who made the observation that a pilot wore a large and complicated watch to compensate for a small dick?
Nowadays I see guys in the recreational movement (ultralights fer chrissake) wearing four.
I think it may have been Ernest K Gann who made the observation that a pilot wore a large and complicated watch to compensate for a small dick?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The concept of rank occurs in the armed services ( 2 way rifle range) it has no place in civilian life.
Sholder bars arean affectation that prevades both Aviation and the Merchant Marine.
In a crew of 2 it is hardly necessary to wear "Rank" to distinguish the relative roles and since the Cockpit is now a sterile area it really is not necessary for the passengers, and certainly does nothing on freight carrying.
A outdated and anacronistic concept methinks
Sholder bars arean affectation that prevades both Aviation and the Merchant Marine.
In a crew of 2 it is hardly necessary to wear "Rank" to distinguish the relative roles and since the Cockpit is now a sterile area it really is not necessary for the passengers, and certainly does nothing on freight carrying.
A outdated and anacronistic concept methinks
You have a license which defines your qualification. There is no "rank" in civil aviation - there is only a "uniform standard", so you wear what the uniform standard for your company says.
Exactly the same pilot, with exactly the same experience, could move from a flying instructor position wearing three bars, to an airline wearing one bar, to a GA charter company wearing four bars - and most care not one whit for what is stuck on their shoulder - because (civil) pilots simply know that it is part of a company's advertising and matters no more to them or to other pilots than does the colour of their shirt.
Exactly the same pilot, with exactly the same experience, could move from a flying instructor position wearing three bars, to an airline wearing one bar, to a GA charter company wearing four bars - and most care not one whit for what is stuck on their shoulder - because (civil) pilots simply know that it is part of a company's advertising and matters no more to them or to other pilots than does the colour of their shirt.
Last edited by Checkboard; 30th Jul 2012 at 01:12.
In an airline it simply means the dude wearing the 4 bars is generally going to be overpaid, overweight and old, 
the fatest guy in our company is an F/O or maybe it's cabin crew?
The oldest is definitely cabin crew.
Overpaid?? Not sure if there are any overpaid outside of management.
4 bars helps ground staff, cabin crew, engineers etc be aware of who they should be approaching.
Having said that modern HF and its touchy feely concept means you can tell anyone as long as they agree with you.
The oldest is definitely cabin crew.
Overpaid?? Not sure if there are any overpaid outside of management.
4 bars helps ground staff, cabin crew, engineers etc be aware of who they should be approaching.
Having said that modern HF and its touchy feely concept means you can tell anyone as long as they agree with you.
Last edited by RENURPP; 30th Jul 2012 at 12:30.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South of O
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE]The concept of rank occurs in the armed services ( 2 way rifle range) it has no place in civilian life/QUOTE]
Last time I checked Police, Firemen, Ambulance, SES, etc, were all associated with civilian life, and do forgive them, they were civilians as well.
Last time I checked Police, Firemen, Ambulance, SES, etc, were all associated with civilian life, and do forgive them, they were civilians as well.
Last edited by squarebear; 30th Jul 2012 at 03:27.
The concept of rank occurs in the armed services ( 2 way rifle range) it has no place in civilian life.
Later as a instructor on Lincolns I was required to test senior officers for type ratings and instrument ratings. Same principle applied. I called them "Sir" and most would address me by my christian name. Again it worked out OK and I never experienced any senior officer "pulling rank" I am sure the same situation applies in 2012
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No rank in civil aviation? Not entirely true.
In the airline world:
Second Officer = 2 bars
First Officer = 3 bars (Even line training)
Captain = 4 bars
In GA I never had bars, however no one knew what you did outside the aeroplane either.
A uniform is important for professionalism; clients think you know what you're doing if dressed well, just as they think the plane is well maintained if it is clean.
Bars in the airline environment are important to know who is who and, in case of emergency, who is in charge.
Horses for courses.. RAA is recreational, why the bars?? Dress professionally but bars are over the top.
In the airline world:
Second Officer = 2 bars
First Officer = 3 bars (Even line training)
Captain = 4 bars
In GA I never had bars, however no one knew what you did outside the aeroplane either.
A uniform is important for professionalism; clients think you know what you're doing if dressed well, just as they think the plane is well maintained if it is clean.
Bars in the airline environment are important to know who is who and, in case of emergency, who is in charge.
Horses for courses.. RAA is recreational, why the bars?? Dress professionally but bars are over the top.
Last edited by SW3; 30th Jul 2012 at 05:34.
Last time I checked Police, Firemen, Ambulance, SES, etc, were all associated with civilian life, and do forgive them, they were civilians as well.
No rank in civil aviation? Not entirely true.
In the airline world:
Second Officer = 2 bars
First Officer = 3 bars (Even line training)
Captain = 4 bars
In the airline world:
Second Officer = 2 bars
First Officer = 3 bars (Even line training)
Captain = 4 bars
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: land down under
Age: 43
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Friends used to ask me why I had 2 bars and other pilots had 3 and 4.
My reply was " Cause they had an extra $4 in their wallet the day we went to buy them".
Wasn't a lie either.
My reply was " Cause they had an extra $4 in their wallet the day we went to buy them".
Wasn't a lie either.
Last edited by propblast; 30th Jul 2012 at 06:44.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Australia there are many bars, some good, some bad and some only suited to slaking the most pressing of needs. You pays your money and take your chances. 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A uniform is important for professionalism; clients think you know what you're doing if dressed well, just as they think the plane is well maintained if it is clean.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was handy back in my ground days when the company VHF was so bad you couldn't determine how much fuel they where asking for.
Once on the ground if you didn't know the crew you find the one with 4 bars.
3 bars would at least know where to look, 2 bars you would ask them to ask the captain to call you back.
Once on the ground if you didn't know the crew you find the one with 4 bars.
3 bars would at least know where to look, 2 bars you would ask them to ask the captain to call you back.