Working for Free!
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Being on the outside looking in I suppose I only have a limited view of this. I would love to switch from an office job to flying, and personally I would not mind doing the menial work if it came as part of a flying job (well, I need the exercise anyway). I can understand you are not going to be doing it all from the start and perhaps they do need to extract a bit more value from you if are not experienced enough yet to do the higher value jobs. If you are paid for it then why shouldn't you roll up your sleeves and do your part.
What I don't like the idea of is what I see in say Ice Pilots, where it seems like the "promise" of flying is held as a carrot to extract some cheap labour. Come along, break your back doing loading/cleaning and if you hang around for a year or two and put up with their crap, perhaps one day, if someone else does not pinch it, you can get a chance to fly, maybe, as long as you don't piss off the boss. It seems to me to be on the same level as pay to fly or fly for free - using someone's passion and dreams to cheapen your operations. Its not about doing the non-flying work, its that in being hired as a pilot (after training and hour building etc) should have a reasonable expectation to exercise your skills, not just have them as a flag that you are keen to do anything near an aircraft.
What I don't like the idea of is what I see in say Ice Pilots, where it seems like the "promise" of flying is held as a carrot to extract some cheap labour. Come along, break your back doing loading/cleaning and if you hang around for a year or two and put up with their crap, perhaps one day, if someone else does not pinch it, you can get a chance to fly, maybe, as long as you don't piss off the boss. It seems to me to be on the same level as pay to fly or fly for free - using someone's passion and dreams to cheapen your operations. Its not about doing the non-flying work, its that in being hired as a pilot (after training and hour building etc) should have a reasonable expectation to exercise your skills, not just have them as a flag that you are keen to do anything near an aircraft.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,211
Likes: 0
From: Sunny side up
I paid $80k for a CPL.
Wow. 
You can do a Bachelor of Laws at a suitably snooty sandstone university for $35K, and it's considered an expensive degree. Even Med comes in at under $55K, including $15K for the primary degree.
Bachelor of Laws - Courses and Programs - The University of Queensland, Australia
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,211
Likes: 0
From: Sunny side up
True. I snuck back for an edit but you beat me to it.
You can have all the fancy qualifications in the world but if no-one wants to pay you reasonable rates for them, surely it's better to be working than not, even if it leaves a slightly foul taste in your mouth.
You can have all the fancy qualifications in the world but if no-one wants to pay you reasonable rates for them, surely it's better to be working than not, even if it leaves a slightly foul taste in your mouth.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 46
From: Hollister, Hilo, Pago Pago, Norfolk Is., Brisbane, depending which day of the week it is...
Not sweeping floors?
If you were dumb enough to pay $80K, I'm surprised they didn't save on the broom and convice you to lick them clean instead!
If you were dumb enough to pay $80K, I'm surprised they didn't save on the broom and convice you to lick them clean instead!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 286
Likes: 5
From: South East Asia
No floor sweeping. Won't be going to far in GA then. Plenty of places where sweeping a floor or vacuuming the office is part of the job! I suppose for 80k washing your aircraft and cleaning windows is beneath you too?
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Skipton
Thats fine, dont get a job then.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 568
Likes: 1
From: Australia
doing a task thats beneath me
You're on fire mate, keep em coming.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 650
Likes: 22
From: Jungle
I was once told by a prospective employer "you are unemployable with 240hrs"
That was for a C182/C206 job. He asked me to work for free and build my hours. Needless to say I never called back.
Unfortunately I am still unemployed, and had I taken the position, probably would have closer to 300hrs TT and a fair bit of 200 series time.
That was for a C182/C206 job. He asked me to work for free and build my hours. Needless to say I never called back.
Unfortunately I am still unemployed, and had I taken the position, probably would have closer to 300hrs TT and a fair bit of 200 series time.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 650
Likes: 22
From: Jungle
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 305
From: All at sea
Blatant Liar true story coming up.
Someone I know well paid his own way to a CPL. I was able to use a contact in the industry to secure him a job with a King Air operator as a general dogs body. He swept the floor, washed the aeroplane, even had to clean the owner's swimming pool, but it was a job in aviation, albeit on the fringe. After a few months of this, they needed a copilot in a hurry, so he got to wear a uniform and sit in the right seat. Only a few months later they needed a captain in a hurry. The punters liked this kid's attitude, so the boss took a punt and sent him to the USA to do a proper course on the Kingair.
The guy in this story is now a Captain on wide body aircraft with a major airline.
All the time you sit around waiting for your god given right to a flying job just because you paid bucks for a licence, some kid out there is getting the drop on you by doing the hard yards.
Someone I know well paid his own way to a CPL. I was able to use a contact in the industry to secure him a job with a King Air operator as a general dogs body. He swept the floor, washed the aeroplane, even had to clean the owner's swimming pool, but it was a job in aviation, albeit on the fringe. After a few months of this, they needed a copilot in a hurry, so he got to wear a uniform and sit in the right seat. Only a few months later they needed a captain in a hurry. The punters liked this kid's attitude, so the boss took a punt and sent him to the USA to do a proper course on the Kingair.
The guy in this story is now a Captain on wide body aircraft with a major airline.
All the time you sit around waiting for your god given right to a flying job just because you paid bucks for a licence, some kid out there is getting the drop on you by doing the hard yards.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 6th August 2012 at 02:53.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: sydney
Here here Mach e
Agree with you whole heartedly.
There is no easy path. Just hard work and dedication.
The spoilt little rich kids of the world think they are owed a career. How do you get through to them?
Agree with you whole heartedly.
There is no easy path. Just hard work and dedication.
The spoilt little rich kids of the world think they are owed a career. How do you get through to them?