Is CASA morally criminal?
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Is CASA morally criminal?
In an earlier post Tail Wheel said that CASA's rule rewrite has taken :
"Two months short of 23 years and they admit to burning over $200 million on the exercise."
That's like 8 and half million dollars a year - WHO IS RECEIVING THAT MONEY? How many people are being eternally employed doing that?
That's like 100 people on a 87K pay packet for 23 years!
So has anyone been fired for corruption, wastage, stupidity, embezzlement?
The sky should be full of people either enjoying themselves or worrying about screwing up rather than worrying about incomprehensible rules.
As well as that staggering financial cost can you imagine how much enjoyment CASA has destroyed with thousands who could have flown, or who wouldn't have given up and be flying today supporting dozens more businesses if only CASA had got its act together?
Why don't we make it a rule that all CASA officials have to be pilots or engineers FIRST and then they can join CASA? So people who love aircraft are regulating aircraft.
Why won't CASA just copy the NZ regs so rather than have no one understanding what's all going on then at least all the kiwi pilots could explain things to their Ozzie mates . . .
"Two months short of 23 years and they admit to burning over $200 million on the exercise."
That's like 8 and half million dollars a year - WHO IS RECEIVING THAT MONEY? How many people are being eternally employed doing that?
That's like 100 people on a 87K pay packet for 23 years!
So has anyone been fired for corruption, wastage, stupidity, embezzlement?
The sky should be full of people either enjoying themselves or worrying about screwing up rather than worrying about incomprehensible rules.
As well as that staggering financial cost can you imagine how much enjoyment CASA has destroyed with thousands who could have flown, or who wouldn't have given up and be flying today supporting dozens more businesses if only CASA had got its act together?
Why don't we make it a rule that all CASA officials have to be pilots or engineers FIRST and then they can join CASA? So people who love aircraft are regulating aircraft.
Why won't CASA just copy the NZ regs so rather than have no one understanding what's all going on then at least all the kiwi pilots could explain things to their Ozzie mates . . .
Last edited by weloveseaplanes; 21st Jul 2012 at 02:01.
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You're obviously a bit naive weloveseaplanes? 
How many people are being eternally employed doing that?
How many - I don't think even CASA know that! It is a career to retirement project intended to asist the multitude of pilots and engineer that can't cut the mustard in the real world. If they weren't in CASA writing regulations they would be on unemployment benefits. Same cost to the taxpayer but it keeps them off the streets!
So has anyone been fired for corruption, wastage, stupidity, embezzlement?
Hahahahahahahahahaha. I like your sense of humour!
If they did that no one would be left in CASA to work on the regulations.
Why won't CASA just copy the NZ regs so rather than have no one understanding what's all going on then at least all the kiwi pilots could explain things to their Ozzie mates . . .
We'll have none of that logical thinking stuff here!
Go and wash your mouth out and stand in the corner! 
The part I love is that Australian taxpayers funded Papue New Guinea to toss out their adopted Australian aviation legislation and adopt the kiwi legislation!
This will tell you exactly where the regulation re-write is at:
Senate Hansard for the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee hearings of 14 February 2005 pages 124 and 125 - now over seven years ago:
"We have an action item to develop a plan to forward to the minister about when we plan to have them to the minister, and I assume that plan would be done in the next couple of months."
I think Mr Byron plagiarised that from the UK TV Series "Yes Minister"?
CASA provide an authoritive email regulatory update service. Send your email request for update, marked urgent to: [email protected]
You could contact the Minister by email to [email protected] but please type slowly as he doesn't read very fast.
Don't expect a reply unless you live in the Electorate of Grayndler or your name is Kevin Rudd.
How many people are being eternally employed doing that?
How many - I don't think even CASA know that! It is a career to retirement project intended to asist the multitude of pilots and engineer that can't cut the mustard in the real world. If they weren't in CASA writing regulations they would be on unemployment benefits. Same cost to the taxpayer but it keeps them off the streets!
So has anyone been fired for corruption, wastage, stupidity, embezzlement?
Hahahahahahahahahaha. I like your sense of humour!
If they did that no one would be left in CASA to work on the regulations.Why won't CASA just copy the NZ regs so rather than have no one understanding what's all going on then at least all the kiwi pilots could explain things to their Ozzie mates . . .
We'll have none of that logical thinking stuff here!
Go and wash your mouth out and stand in the corner! The part I love is that Australian taxpayers funded Papue New Guinea to toss out their adopted Australian aviation legislation and adopt the kiwi legislation!
This will tell you exactly where the regulation re-write is at:
Senate Hansard for the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee hearings of 14 February 2005 pages 124 and 125 - now over seven years ago:
Senator MARK BISHOP—Now that [the Regulatory Reform Program] has been refocused away from a timely conclusion, what is the new completion date and how is it proposed to stop it drifting along forever?
Mr Byron—We do not have a firm completion date at this stage, but we should be able to generate that fairly soon. Mr Gemmell mentioned the refocus, I suppose, that I imposed on the organisation in late 2003-04 on getting the rules right and getting the quality. I found it necessary late last year to articulate in a bit more detail some guiding principles about how I wanted that done and who I wanted to be involved in the process.
I have issued some guiding principles on the formulation of new regulations and, if necessary, manuals of standards that accompany them. I have, I suppose, imposed on the system an additional layer of consultation, to assure me that the final draft rules that I send to the minister for consideration by the parliament are the right ones and that they address very carefully risks that are real and necessary issues that must be picked up by regulations. I felt it was necessary to do that to make sure that I have the right rules. I am not going to put my signature to anything that I do not think adequately addresses safety issues.
Senator MARK BISHOP—When do you think those regulations will go to the minister?
Mr Byron—I anticipate we would start sending some of them from about the middle of this year. I do not see this delaying the overall program excessively. We have an action item to develop a plan to forward to the minister about when we plan to have them to the minister, and I assume that plan would be done in the next couple of months. I would be hopeful that it would not be long after early 2006 that most of the draft rules are delivered to the minister.
Mr Byron—We do not have a firm completion date at this stage, but we should be able to generate that fairly soon. Mr Gemmell mentioned the refocus, I suppose, that I imposed on the organisation in late 2003-04 on getting the rules right and getting the quality. I found it necessary late last year to articulate in a bit more detail some guiding principles about how I wanted that done and who I wanted to be involved in the process.
I have issued some guiding principles on the formulation of new regulations and, if necessary, manuals of standards that accompany them. I have, I suppose, imposed on the system an additional layer of consultation, to assure me that the final draft rules that I send to the minister for consideration by the parliament are the right ones and that they address very carefully risks that are real and necessary issues that must be picked up by regulations. I felt it was necessary to do that to make sure that I have the right rules. I am not going to put my signature to anything that I do not think adequately addresses safety issues.
Senator MARK BISHOP—When do you think those regulations will go to the minister?
Mr Byron—I anticipate we would start sending some of them from about the middle of this year. I do not see this delaying the overall program excessively. We have an action item to develop a plan to forward to the minister about when we plan to have them to the minister, and I assume that plan would be done in the next couple of months. I would be hopeful that it would not be long after early 2006 that most of the draft rules are delivered to the minister.
I think Mr Byron plagiarised that from the UK TV Series "Yes Minister"?
CASA provide an authoritive email regulatory update service. Send your email request for update, marked urgent to: [email protected]
You could contact the Minister by email to [email protected] but please type slowly as he doesn't read very fast.
Don't expect a reply unless you live in the Electorate of Grayndler or your name is Kevin Rudd.
weloveseaplanes
Is CASA morally criminal?
In an earlier post Tail Wheel said that CASA's rule rewrite has taken :
"Two months short of 23 years and they admit to burning over $200 million on the exercise."
Is CASA morally criminal?
In an earlier post Tail Wheel said that CASA's rule rewrite has taken :
"Two months short of 23 years and they admit to burning over $200 million on the exercise."
The better heading might be IS CASA TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE?
If Mr Byron did lead the Senate and others astray, now that he is gone he cannot be held accountable for his inability to effect reforms.
Without a dedicated watchdog group who through increasing credibility are able to be heard and who are capable of monitoring the performance of CASA week by week , month by month, then all this griping is so much pissing in the wind.
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How do I re-write manuals around Regs written so only a barrister could understand them? What's more, how the hell are my pilots supposed to understand the new regs? They, like I, have zero grounding in deciphering documents written this way. The industry is being set up for a massive fail. Why would CASA do this? It doesn't make any sense. 23 years and this is the best they can come up with??!
D
D
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Interesting statistical conclusions may be drawn:
23 years, 10 months, with the CASA office open 8.30 am to 5.00 pm excluding public holidays = 48,520 business hours.
$200,000,000 over 48,520 business hours = $4,122 per hour.
$4,122 per hour / an average CASA salary of $60 per hour = 69 staff.
69 staff x 48,520 business hours = 3,347,880 man hours!
So there you have it, statistically 69 staff have been working on the new Regulations, every hours of every day the CASA office is open, for 23 years and 10 months, 3.3 million man hours, to achieve the partial Regulations we have today.
I really wonder how New Zealand and Canada achieved their Regulatory review and re write in five years?
23 years, 10 months, with the CASA office open 8.30 am to 5.00 pm excluding public holidays = 48,520 business hours.
$200,000,000 over 48,520 business hours = $4,122 per hour.
$4,122 per hour / an average CASA salary of $60 per hour = 69 staff.
69 staff x 48,520 business hours = 3,347,880 man hours!
So there you have it, statistically 69 staff have been working on the new Regulations, every hours of every day the CASA office is open, for 23 years and 10 months, 3.3 million man hours, to achieve the partial Regulations we have today.
I really wonder how New Zealand and Canada achieved their Regulatory review and re write in five years?
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So there you have it, statistically 69 staff have been working on the new Regulations, every hours of every day the CASA office is open, for 23 years and 10 months, 3.3 million man hours, to achieve the partial Regulations we have today.
Last edited by Avgas172; 21st Jul 2012 at 12:09.
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I maintain.....go to the FAA, hand over $50M as a generous donation, for a copy of their rule book, in MS WORD format, hit FIND and REPLACE the word FAA with CASA.
send to printer..... Job done
Cost $50,000,150
send to printer..... Job done
Cost $50,000,150
Grandpa Aerotart
Nah not that easy Jaba - you'd have to do the conversions from sm to nm and meters THEN hit print.
Public servants held liable for waste and incompetence?
Now there is a concept - good luck with that
History should have taught you that short of causing genocide public servants are golden.
Public servants held liable for waste and incompetence?
Now there is a concept - good luck with that
History should have taught you that short of causing genocide public servants are golden.
The problem is the system. It is in CASA's interest to buggerise around with the regs as this creates activity. Drafting, redrafting, consultation committees etc etc. Years and Years of activity that needs to be funded and managed.
Those at the top have no interest in a quick fix as it will put their power and funding at risk.
So now they have nearly finished the FAA type rules they move the goal posts to more of a Euro style law and it all starts again.
It's all about creating activity.
Those at the top have no interest in a quick fix as it will put their power and funding at risk.
So now they have nearly finished the FAA type rules they move the goal posts to more of a Euro style law and it all starts again.
It's all about creating activity.
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Well that's the question isn't it - where the buck stops is where the bucks are stopping i.e. in whose pockets.
You see we all use scam artist protecting terminology when we say CASA or the Government. Using and thinking in such general terms is the best protection those ripping off the system have.
What we need to do is find by name the exact individuals who have been employed on the rule rewrite, the number of years they have been 'working' on it, how much that has cost the taxpayer and what exactly that individual has produced or not.
For example John Smith, 7 years, 3 vague reports coauthored with 5 others cost to tax payer $850,000.
You then present a case that the nonproductivity of John Smith and a list of other individuals are either
A) intentionally creating meaningless work to employ themselves and are thus willfully and internationally defrauding the Australian tax payer
or
B) incompetent at their jobs having produced nothing of value so there position is not only not needed but is a burden to the State.
You thus show them to be engaged in illegal or incontemptent behaviour based on their work history compared to the salary they have pilfered and have them removed from office in chains or shame.
You see we all use scam artist protecting terminology when we say CASA or the Government. Using and thinking in such general terms is the best protection those ripping off the system have.
What we need to do is find by name the exact individuals who have been employed on the rule rewrite, the number of years they have been 'working' on it, how much that has cost the taxpayer and what exactly that individual has produced or not.
For example John Smith, 7 years, 3 vague reports coauthored with 5 others cost to tax payer $850,000.
You then present a case that the nonproductivity of John Smith and a list of other individuals are either
A) intentionally creating meaningless work to employ themselves and are thus willfully and internationally defrauding the Australian tax payer
or
B) incompetent at their jobs having produced nothing of value so there position is not only not needed but is a burden to the State.
You thus show them to be engaged in illegal or incontemptent behaviour based on their work history compared to the salary they have pilfered and have them removed from office in chains or shame.
Moderator
You then present a case.....
Please don't say the Minister because he doesn't want to know. Senator Xenothon has tried with little success. Other politicians from all sides have, over the years, tried and given up.
This wonderful democratic principal that politicians and public servants are accountable and answerable to the people is all window dressing.
In practice, they are unaccountable.
I don't believe the new Regulations will ever be finished. I suspect they will remain a perpetual work in progress ad infinitum, which the spin doctors will suggest is inevitable and necessary as CASA regulated an ever changing aviation industry.
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TailWheel,
I pray you're right. Between these 'proposed' regs and the amendments to CAO 48, the viability of commercial aviation, particularly GA, swings in the balance.
D
I pray you're right. Between these 'proposed' regs and the amendments to CAO 48, the viability of commercial aviation, particularly GA, swings in the balance.
D
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Perhaps we all should be asking every running politician in the next elections what their aviation policy will be and what they intend to do about the current state of affairs. We may not have 12 months so it's probably better to get and record the promises as soon as possible.
Be wary of those who have lied in the past.
This is more positive and proactive than waiting for a "smoking hole" so we can all say "I told you so". Anyone up to writing a pro-forma so we can send it to our Local or non Local Members? See directory link below.
Media Directory: Federal Politicians
Be wary of those who have lied in the past.
This is more positive and proactive than waiting for a "smoking hole" so we can all say "I told you so". Anyone up to writing a pro-forma so we can send it to our Local or non Local Members? See directory link below.
Media Directory: Federal Politicians
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Slight Drift but Germaneto the thread:
Statement by Commumications Minister today :
Stephen Conroy commenting on Gina Rinehart fitness for the Fairfax Board said shewould probably pass the proposed media bias test but , A test to see if people are "Fit and Proper Persons" was not worth the paper it is printed on.
Statement by Commumications Minister today :
Stephen Conroy commenting on Gina Rinehart fitness for the Fairfax Board said shewould probably pass the proposed media bias test but , A test to see if people are "Fit and Proper Persons" was not worth the paper it is printed on.
Tap tap...
As much as victims of CASA might relish "culling"..it aint the Australian way. Besides its too quick and clinical. And real aviators love their freedom.
Those burecRATS that assasinate folk by regulation, abuse of power, perjury and all the other buggery techniques they employ......need to be out of the job and have the worries of loss of income, and all that goes with it. Ongoing and painful..esp to the hip pocket nerve, and family harmony, depression and etc. They need to suffer like pain of their victims.
It is really amazing...thus far...that the un Australian way hasnt occurred yet. Tred on people long enough...and eventually someone will snap.
The CASA problem is so major, the political interest to that is so minor, that the day may not be far off.
Is CASA morally criminal? THATS a BIG YES
In spite of a code of conduct (sic) some CASA persons behave in a criminal manner, with total disregard to ethics, morals and honesty as required by the Comm Authorities and Companies Act.
So who cares??? The ceo? The Miniscule? Pollies? The LSD ?... any sh*t happens and its Drawbridge up ! And shoot back with denial and BS.
What to do? Way passed time to burn the 'Reichtag'.
Those burecRATS that assasinate folk by regulation, abuse of power, perjury and all the other buggery techniques they employ......need to be out of the job and have the worries of loss of income, and all that goes with it. Ongoing and painful..esp to the hip pocket nerve, and family harmony, depression and etc. They need to suffer like pain of their victims.
It is really amazing...thus far...that the un Australian way hasnt occurred yet. Tred on people long enough...and eventually someone will snap.
The CASA problem is so major, the political interest to that is so minor, that the day may not be far off.
Is CASA morally criminal? THATS a BIG YES
In spite of a code of conduct (sic) some CASA persons behave in a criminal manner, with total disregard to ethics, morals and honesty as required by the Comm Authorities and Companies Act.
So who cares??? The ceo? The Miniscule? Pollies? The LSD ?... any sh*t happens and its Drawbridge up ! And shoot back with denial and BS.
What to do? Way passed time to burn the 'Reichtag'.