Barry Hempel Inquest
If the facts and figures in the threads regarding CASA's regulatory reform, i.e. the time and cost to the taxpayer it has consumed, are true, it is a scandal.
Combined with the circumstances of this sad and unneccessary event, surely it would be something that Four Corners could run with?
And what about Australian Warbirds (AWAL), the de facto 'regulators' of Limited category passenger ('Adventure') flights? Was anyone in the upper echelons of that organisation aware of what was going on regarding this operator?
Combined with the circumstances of this sad and unneccessary event, surely it would be something that Four Corners could run with?
And what about Australian Warbirds (AWAL), the de facto 'regulators' of Limited category passenger ('Adventure') flights? Was anyone in the upper echelons of that organisation aware of what was going on regarding this operator?
Last edited by Captain Dart; 25th Jul 2012 at 23:37.
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Thats "ops normal" in Australia's business culture today.
Not really, it's driven by an out of control OHS/WHS Industry. Occupies a fair bit of my time and drives me to distraction. However, we all have to keep nice about it as the penalties for being caught out can be draconian.
Not really, it's driven by an out of control OHS/WHS Industry. Occupies a fair bit of my time and drives me to distraction. However, we all have to keep nice about it as the penalties for being caught out can be draconian.
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Back to the Inquest, I believe the QLD Coppers will feature shortly in this affair. Remember, one of their Finest was lost at Lockhart River and they have long memories. Add a new State Government and there is hope.
I believe the first mob to get the boot were Anna's "climate" bureau.
This new bloke means business, and I don't think CASA washing their hands will get them off the hook.
I believe the first mob to get the boot were Anna's "climate" bureau.
This new bloke means business, and I don't think CASA washing their hands will get them off the hook.
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Frank,
Back to the Inquest, I believe the QLD Coppers will feature shortly in this affair
And so they should, just maybe we might se some clear unbiased investigation that opensthe can of worms that CASA is loath to touch as it implicates their own.
Bring on the truth.
Back to the Inquest, I believe the QLD Coppers will feature shortly in this affair
And so they should, just maybe we might se some clear unbiased investigation that opensthe can of worms that CASA is loath to touch as it implicates their own.
Bring on the truth.
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When you get on the 392 to Parramatta, how do you know the driver has a Commercial Vehicle Medical? How do you know the driver has a current license?
When I walk into a flying school and ask to do a joy flight, how do I know the pilot has a current class 1 medical, had an AFR, and has completed 3 take-off's and landings in the last 90 days? How woul I even know to ask, let alone even have the faintest idea what all the above was.
When I walk into a flying school and ask to do a joy flight, how do I know the pilot has a current class 1 medical, had an AFR, and has completed 3 take-off's and landings in the last 90 days? How woul I even know to ask, let alone even have the faintest idea what all the above was.
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Exactly. How do you know that your deli stores its meat at the proscribed temperature so you don't get sick? How do you know that the bar you go to is serving real Absolut, not bathtub vodka poured into Absolut bottles with the potato peelings sieved out?
You don't. You rely on the government food inspectors and liquor licensing officers to regulate those things for you. That's why you pay tax; to fund those agencies and their investigations. You pay money and delegate that responsibility to the government. Of course any sane person will question services they can see are blatently unsafe, but no one person can possibly know everything about the services they use.
People who live in lawless societies like Somalia question everything they buy, every service they use. They know that there is no effective government and the only law is Caveat Emptor; let the buyer beware. Australia is not one of those societies. We all pay large amounts of tax to fund agencies that regulate business and detect and prosecute people engaging in unlawful activity.
In this instance, a company was operating with wilful disregard for the law and it is suggested that the relevant regulator was aware of that, but did nothing effective that either stoppped them doing so or warned the public about their unlawful activities. A person purchased a service from that company in good faith and her partner ended up dead through absolutely no fault of his own.
Why do we pay taxes again? If the government and its agencies cannot regulate activities and persue people who disobey its law, then what is its purpose? What does it achieve?
You don't. You rely on the government food inspectors and liquor licensing officers to regulate those things for you. That's why you pay tax; to fund those agencies and their investigations. You pay money and delegate that responsibility to the government. Of course any sane person will question services they can see are blatently unsafe, but no one person can possibly know everything about the services they use.
People who live in lawless societies like Somalia question everything they buy, every service they use. They know that there is no effective government and the only law is Caveat Emptor; let the buyer beware. Australia is not one of those societies. We all pay large amounts of tax to fund agencies that regulate business and detect and prosecute people engaging in unlawful activity.
In this instance, a company was operating with wilful disregard for the law and it is suggested that the relevant regulator was aware of that, but did nothing effective that either stoppped them doing so or warned the public about their unlawful activities. A person purchased a service from that company in good faith and her partner ended up dead through absolutely no fault of his own.
Why do we pay taxes again? If the government and its agencies cannot regulate activities and persue people who disobey its law, then what is its purpose? What does it achieve?
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 26th Jul 2012 at 15:05.
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Why do we pay taxes again? If the government and its agencies cannot regulate activities and persue people who disobey its law, then what is its purpose? What does it achieve?
CASA knew he was flying and they knew his medical status, CASA are culpable
CASA knew he was flying and they knew his medical status, CASA are culpable
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I believe CASA are very exposed in the Hemple matter.
There in lies the defense for claims of caveat emptor. There is a precedent, and Ex Gratia payments are paid, but not by CASA. It is usually by Dept Finance, but don't hold your breath with this current mob of politicians.
We all pay large amounts of tax to fund agencies that regulate business and detect and prosecute people engaging in unlawful activity.
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How did Lovell's family afford a QC for the inquest?
I only ask this because I'm wondering if they have set up a fund where you can donate for civil proceedings or to get the wreckage examined for their piece of mind?
I'm not preempting the findings, just asking the question?
I only ask this because I'm wondering if they have set up a fund where you can donate for civil proceedings or to get the wreckage examined for their piece of mind?
I'm not preempting the findings, just asking the question?
, but don't hold your breath with this current mob of politicians.
Last edited by Arnold E; 27th Jul 2012 at 11:34.
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There in lies the defense for claims of caveat emptor.
In this case a person used a product bought in good faith, believing it was legally sanctioned when it wasn't, when the provider was well aware of that and the regulator allegedly so. Caveat venditor.
Caveat ordinatio.
Of course Latin is a dead language so it's probably better to stick with the lingua franca (sorry
). The important test in our legal system is the reasonable person test. Would a reasonable person view an advertisement for joyflight services and assume that service complied with the relevant legislation (even if it were an inherently risky activity) because otherwise it would not be allowed to operate or advertise?
Would a reasonable person assume that if the relevant airport recommended that business (if that occurred), the business was conducting lawful activities?
Would a reasonable person assume that if the relevant regulator was aware of breaches against the legislation it regulates, it would restrict or prohibit that service's activities and advise the public of its findings so unwary customers didn't unwittingly stumble into a deathtrap?
Would that be reasonable?
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 27th Jul 2012 at 12:58.
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What, and you believe the next lot will be better?............dreamer!
They paid me, an ex gratia payment, via Department Finance, for injustices done by CASA. I doubt I would get the political ear of anybody in the Labor Party today unless I was a life member or someone related by birth to the red dragon.
Why do we pay taxes again?
Last edited by Metro man; 28th Jul 2012 at 08:53.
Also to provide welfare benefits to people who don't want to work but have to be persuaded to vote for one of the political parties.
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Nobody "put Douglas Bader down" for having no legs.
Incapacities are a hurdle most of us can overcome.
People who are able bodied, indeed athletic, who abuse our right to breathe oxygen without putting a correspondingly amount of CO2 back into the vegetation are thieves not worthy of having the rank of "public servant" let alone caretakers of our welfare.
Public Servant: What an oxymoron!
10% of the population are full time unemployable. Get used to it.
Incapacities are a hurdle most of us can overcome.
People who are able bodied, indeed athletic, who abuse our right to breathe oxygen without putting a correspondingly amount of CO2 back into the vegetation are thieves not worthy of having the rank of "public servant" let alone caretakers of our welfare.
Public Servant: What an oxymoron!
10% of the population are full time unemployable. Get used to it.
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According to the 2009-10 Annual Report, 52% of CASA's income came from the aviation fuel excise and only 12% from sale of goods/rendering of services.
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...ar-2010-p1.pdf
Page 10.
From the same report, 33% of CASA's income was 'appropriation from government', aka funding from the consolidated revenue fund.
The Commonwealth’s Appropriation Framework – An Introduction - Department of Finance and Deregulation
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...ar-2010-p1.pdf
Page 10.
From the same report, 33% of CASA's income was 'appropriation from government', aka funding from the consolidated revenue fund.
The Commonwealth’s Appropriation Framework – An Introduction - Department of Finance and Deregulation
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 29th Jul 2012 at 09:42.
------ and only 12% from sale of goods/rendering of services.
"Policy" says that charges for "services that are subject to cost recovery" are to be increased to achieve 25% cost recovery in the near term, with a long term aim of 100% cost recovery.
Not a pleasant prospect for whatever is left of aviation by that time ---- given the present level of charges, and what you get for the money.
Tootle pip!!
PS: That's not necessarily CASA policy, but Dept. of Finance.
Last edited by LeadSled; 29th Jul 2012 at 14:05.