2 Pilot Aircraft - Leaving the Flight Deck.
2 Pilot Aircraft - Leaving the Flight Deck.
Kicking the football around today over a coffee, one of the guys asked a question, but we cant find a definite anwer in the regs.
You have a 2 pilot aircraft. In cruise, one pilot decides he needs to visit the bathroom. Thats fine, the other pilot goes on 02 and the other goes to spend a penny. The question is, how long is acceptable to be absent from the flight deck.
The regs say that one pilot must be at the controls with his seat in such a position as to have full control over the flight controls, including the rudders. But nothing on what is acceptable about the other being out of the flight deck.
Say on a long overwater flight, can one have "lunch hr' down the back.....hypothetical question.
So whats the generally accepted practice.
You have a 2 pilot aircraft. In cruise, one pilot decides he needs to visit the bathroom. Thats fine, the other pilot goes on 02 and the other goes to spend a penny. The question is, how long is acceptable to be absent from the flight deck.
The regs say that one pilot must be at the controls with his seat in such a position as to have full control over the flight controls, including the rudders. But nothing on what is acceptable about the other being out of the flight deck.
Say on a long overwater flight, can one have "lunch hr' down the back.....hypothetical question.
So whats the generally accepted practice.
I believe a quick donning mask will suffice as long as your not operating above FL450!
8.5 Paragraph 8.4 does not apply if an aircraft is equipped with a quick-donning type oxygen mask for the pilot or, if more than 1 pilot is required for the flight, each pilot. However, whenever the aircraft is operating above flight level 450, the pilot, or one of the pilots, seated at the controls of the aircraft must wear an oxygen mask that is properly fitted and supplying oxygen.
8.5 Paragraph 8.4 does not apply if an aircraft is equipped with a quick-donning type oxygen mask for the pilot or, if more than 1 pilot is required for the flight, each pilot. However, whenever the aircraft is operating above flight level 450, the pilot, or one of the pilots, seated at the controls of the aircraft must wear an oxygen mask that is properly fitted and supplying oxygen.
US FAR's provide more clarity than Australian CAR's on this. They effectively state that the duration of any absence from the flight deck should be limited to the time needed to accomplish physiological needs (or some similar wording).
In other words, it's okay to slip out for a slash or a dump, but not to take in dinner and a movie as well.
In other words, it's okay to slip out for a slash or a dump, but not to take in dinner and a movie as well.
I'm with 'chimbu'on this one but either way I think some common sense should prevail here in the lack of any actual Co SOP's/Regs.
If you where a Capt in 'pornstar' for Eg & you had a 250hr low hr'd cadet F/O at the steering wheel whilst you where in the little boys room just how long do you really think you would sit there? 2 splashes & yr back like a flash I'd say!
Wmk2
If you where a Capt in 'pornstar' for Eg & you had a 250hr low hr'd cadet F/O at the steering wheel whilst you where in the little boys room just how long do you really think you would sit there? 2 splashes & yr back like a flash I'd say!
Wmk2
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funnily enough this very topic lead to a "heated" debate at my last crm refresher.
Basically, trolly troll number 1 (we do joint crm classes) wanted to know how long pilot bloggs could leave the office for....before, get this...she could report them to management..
discuss
Basically, trolly troll number 1 (we do joint crm classes) wanted to know how long pilot bloggs could leave the office for....before, get this...she could report them to management..
discuss
Porch,
In the US, RPT or 121 carriers as they're known, can never have 1 pilot left alone in the cockpit. So if one of the drivers needs a physiological break, an FA has to come in. The only time you don't have to do this is when you have another pilot in the jumpseat.
In the US, RPT or 121 carriers as they're known, can never have 1 pilot left alone in the cockpit. So if one of the drivers needs a physiological break, an FA has to come in. The only time you don't have to do this is when you have another pilot in the jumpseat.
I don't mind cpt's stretching legs and other sorts for a while in the back, but there's one thing that I really really really don't get. And it happens every time. Why do captains have an urge to turn up the speaker volume before leaving?
You really think I'm going to be sitting in (no kidding) earblowing Indi - kgggggrrrsshhhh - disco mode for the next 10 minutes so you can hear stuff from the back? And I wonder if I'm supposed to do the same thing for the same reasons... but do I really want his mike to feedback like crazy on his first report...? No. So I leave it, volumes are good to work in.
(sorry, had to get this of my chest, for the rest no complaints at all, great chaps in our box! I'm dead serious, good guys all over)
You really think I'm going to be sitting in (no kidding) earblowing Indi - kgggggrrrsshhhh - disco mode for the next 10 minutes so you can hear stuff from the back? And I wonder if I'm supposed to do the same thing for the same reasons... but do I really want his mike to feedback like crazy on his first report...? No. So I leave it, volumes are good to work in.
(sorry, had to get this of my chest, for the rest no complaints at all, great chaps in our box! I'm dead serious, good guys all over)
Kenny said-
Ok, Im going to ask for the FAR 121 para reference that says that. Never ever heard of that one and I studied 121 back in the mid nineties and flew FAR 135 up until a few yrs ago.
In the US, RPT or 121 carriers as they're known, can never have 1 pilot left alone in the cockpit. So if one of the drivers needs a physiological break, an FA has to come in. The only time you don't have to do this is when you have another pilot in the jumpseat.
Look in CFR 49 chapter XII. under flight deck privileges.
§*1544.237***Flight deck privileges.
(a) For each aircraft that has a door to the flight deck, each aircraft operator must restrict access to the flight deck as provided in its security program.
Every 121 carriers security program has to follow TSA mandates and guidelines. You won't find any specifics on what is included because as a 121 pilot you're not allowed to talk publicly about it. Trust me though, it's SOP to never allow a single pilot in a cockpit while an aircraft is in the air.
Aussie, everything changed after 9/11 as far as 121 security is concerned. I've just returned to Oz after 10 years of flying 121 in the US.
§*1544.237***Flight deck privileges.
(a) For each aircraft that has a door to the flight deck, each aircraft operator must restrict access to the flight deck as provided in its security program.
Every 121 carriers security program has to follow TSA mandates and guidelines. You won't find any specifics on what is included because as a 121 pilot you're not allowed to talk publicly about it. Trust me though, it's SOP to never allow a single pilot in a cockpit while an aircraft is in the air.
Aussie, everything changed after 9/11 as far as 121 security is concerned. I've just returned to Oz after 10 years of flying 121 in the US.
Last edited by Kenny; 28th Feb 2012 at 11:11. Reason: Found the correct reference.
Originally Posted by Brace
You really think I'm going to be sitting in (no kidding) earblowing Indi - kgggggrrrsshhhh - disco mode for the next 10 minutes so you can hear stuff from the back? And I wonder if I'm supposed to do the same thing for the same reasons... but do I really want his mike to feedback like crazy on his first report...? No. So I leave it, volumes are good to work in.
Agree, except for the fact that in cruise, we are usually already using the speaker at a perfect work volume and the headset is on the sidewall.
I can understand they increase the speaker volume so they can follow ATC calls "somewhat" from the galley (we're freight) and fear I might fall asleep or even dead. But in 99% of the cases that doesn't happen and I end up blowing my ears either because ATC calls or because my mike goes into feedback when I need to report.
I sometimes do the same thing with box 2 on 121.5 (especially when both of us start to feel tired and I go to stretch my legs). But box 1?
I can understand they increase the speaker volume so they can follow ATC calls "somewhat" from the galley (we're freight) and fear I might fall asleep or even dead. But in 99% of the cases that doesn't happen and I end up blowing my ears either because ATC calls or because my mike goes into feedback when I need to report.
I sometimes do the same thing with box 2 on 121.5 (especially when both of us start to feel tired and I go to stretch my legs). But box 1?
We do the reverse 'bloggsy' heads sets on, seat upright & full harness on whilst the other CM is out of the pit of cocks. That way it lessons the chance of missing a radio call whilst say yr in a reclined position & therefor more relaxed.
I think common sense is needed in most of these scenario's. Turning the speaker volume up achieves nothing I believe in fact could be distracting.
Wmk2
I think common sense is needed in most of these scenario's. Turning the speaker volume up achieves nothing I believe in fact could be distracting.
Wmk2
