When Is An Aircraft An Aircraft?
Thread Starter
When Is An Aircraft An Aircraft?
To put that another way, when does a collection of chunks of Aluminium become something that is subject to the regulations?
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Good question. I'd say that it's when it is registered to an owner/operator before it has a certificate of airworthiness issued. The aircraft cannot be issued a Certificate of Airworthiness without first being on the register so I wouldn't say it's when it has a CoA.
I'm sure if you asked CASA you'd get 10 different answers from 5 different FOI's.
I'm sure if you asked CASA you'd get 10 different answers from 5 different FOI's.
That's a very, very good question, Sunfish.
I reckon that we're allowed to build a 747 in our backyards if we want to, and the civil aviation rules have zero application. We just have to make sure we comply with the local zoning and environmenal laws - it may be that building a 747 is noisy and we need a large shed with building approval in which to build it. But it's none of CASA's business if we're private individuals building a 747 in our backyard within a State.
When we want to apply the electrodes to our frankenstein and fly it - that's a very different and complicated regulatory world.
Of course, many builders and manufacturers engage the regulator well in advance of the flying stage, to ensure that the necessary inspections and certifications are obtained in advance of the ultimate goal.
I reckon that we're allowed to build a 747 in our backyards if we want to, and the civil aviation rules have zero application. We just have to make sure we comply with the local zoning and environmenal laws - it may be that building a 747 is noisy and we need a large shed with building approval in which to build it. But it's none of CASA's business if we're private individuals building a 747 in our backyard within a State.
When we want to apply the electrodes to our frankenstein and fly it - that's a very different and complicated regulatory world.
Of course, many builders and manufacturers engage the regulator well in advance of the flying stage, to ensure that the necessary inspections and certifications are obtained in advance of the ultimate goal.
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When it's a DHC2
the beaver ballad - Google Search
the beaver ballad - Google Search
I 'really' don't know Sunny,
But...I would guess fairly accurately I would think, that the moment you join two of those components together.....for the intention of....'commiting aviation'.
Engineering wise...you had better have it 'right'....and according to the 'plan'....
Otherwise......
Cheers
But...I would guess fairly accurately I would think, that the moment you join two of those components together.....for the intention of....'commiting aviation'.
Engineering wise...you had better have it 'right'....and according to the 'plan'....
Otherwise......
Cheers
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It is a very good question and as we will all realise there will be a range of answers.
It all depends on the end use.
If it was ever intended to fly then I would say it should be treated as an aircraft very early in the peace.
With a repair to a deregistered, but certified, aircraft type then the regulators will want to go right back. Part 21 for the supply and design of aeronautical products will be applicable and they will want to see release notes etc.
I would imagine that with non-certified types it would not be so critical.
I do know of one homebuilt type machine though that did not pass muster through a lack of documented history.
If the pieces of aluminium, were ever expected to fly then I would suggest getting the rulebook out sooner would be the go. Later could possibly be too late.
It all depends on the end use.
If it was ever intended to fly then I would say it should be treated as an aircraft very early in the peace.
With a repair to a deregistered, but certified, aircraft type then the regulators will want to go right back. Part 21 for the supply and design of aeronautical products will be applicable and they will want to see release notes etc.
I would imagine that with non-certified types it would not be so critical.
I do know of one homebuilt type machine though that did not pass muster through a lack of documented history.
If the pieces of aluminium, were ever expected to fly then I would suggest getting the rulebook out sooner would be the go. Later could possibly be too late.
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The old saying for homebuilts was something along the lines of, the aircraft is ready to fly when the weight of the paperwork is equal or greater than that of the aircraft. That was until experimental came along....
keep guessing, or........
CASA Aircraft Register Procedures Manual
2.4 What is an Aircraft for the Purposes of Registration?
For the purpose of registration an aircraft is:
Any machine or craft that can derive support in the atmosphere from the reactions of the air, other than the reactions of the air against the earth’s surface, as defined in the Civil Aviation Act 1988; and that is intended to be used as an aircraft
For the purpose of registration an aircraft is:
Any machine or craft that can derive support in the atmosphere from the reactions of the air, other than the reactions of the air against the earth’s surface, as defined in the Civil Aviation Act 1988; and that is intended to be used as an aircraft
Whilst ultralights do not use the ICAO issued Australian prefix “VH” and they are not registered in accordance with the provisions of the CASRs, CARs or this Manual, ultralight aircraft are considered to be Australian aircraft.
Civil Aviation Act 1988 Part 1 Interpretation:
aircraft
means any machine or craft that can derive support in the
atmosphere from the reactions of the air, other than the reactions of
the air against the earth’s surface.
So the answer would be "when it is registered".
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aircraft
means any machine or craft that can derive support in the
atmosphere from the reactions of the air, other than the reactions of
the air against the earth’s surface.
means any machine or craft that can derive support in the
atmosphere from the reactions of the air, other than the reactions of
the air against the earth’s surface.
Sunfish - it depends what you are going to do and what category.
With the sort of stuff that I have got involved with the regulations start to apply shortly after the gleam in my eye. I'd need to do a draft certification plan etc. The bits of metal in the prototype for conformity inspection will need paperwork for when I get to that stage. Might be a new airplane or a major mod to existing one.
I'm sure that you can find aeronautical activities where there is minimal regulation. Perhaps you should read the Advisory Circulars that abound on the CASA website.
With the sort of stuff that I have got involved with the regulations start to apply shortly after the gleam in my eye. I'd need to do a draft certification plan etc. The bits of metal in the prototype for conformity inspection will need paperwork for when I get to that stage. Might be a new airplane or a major mod to existing one.
I'm sure that you can find aeronautical activities where there is minimal regulation. Perhaps you should read the Advisory Circulars that abound on the CASA website.
Thread Starter
VH experimental from a kit via the SAAA. I've already done the maintainers course so I can do the MR. I am assuming the aircraft is "controlled" by the regulations from the minute its registered, but it doesn't become flyable until it receives its provisional C of A.
I'm already assembling "approved data" for everything not covered by the manufacturer in the kit - wiring, paint, fuel lines, electronics, etc.
My objective is to try to approach Boeings standard of technical documentation since its the only one I know the slightest bit about. References and standards for everything. Document and configuration control.
Probably go to Schedule 5 for the system of maintenance.
When the weight of the paperwork exceeds the weight of the aircraft.........
I'm already assembling "approved data" for everything not covered by the manufacturer in the kit - wiring, paint, fuel lines, electronics, etc.
My objective is to try to approach Boeings standard of technical documentation since its the only one I know the slightest bit about. References and standards for everything. Document and configuration control.
Probably go to Schedule 5 for the system of maintenance.
When the weight of the paperwork exceeds the weight of the aircraft.........
'IX' I think you'll find that toy planes come under a different heading with regards to flying machines.Up to 7 kg's you can fly without restriction other than height (300ft) & location with regards to a licensed drome. Abv 7 kg's you need a heavy models permit,, issued in house with the MAAA & abv 25 kg's it's a permit to fly every time, I think:-)
Wmk2
Wmk2
According to NRMA and Allianz insurance, when it leaves Vans' factory as a "kit aircraft". No amount of arguing with the idiots in the call centre would change their point of view that it is a plane rather than a very expensive pile of aluminum until it gets the special bit of paper.
So you kitbuilders, best you cover your plane through some aviation insurer lest you find out the hard way if your house burns down...
So you kitbuilders, best you cover your plane through some aviation insurer lest you find out the hard way if your house burns down...
