RADIO CALLS!
Join Date: Mar 2006
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While we're at it... it's "LEAVING FL350" not "LEFT FL350"!
And no it's not pedantic..it's so altitudes are not confused with radar headings...
I'm looking at you Jetstar pilots! Yeah I said it!....
And no it's not pedantic..it's so altitudes are not confused with radar headings...
I'm looking at you Jetstar pilots! Yeah I said it!....
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
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With the social networking generation, I expect things to get a lot worse before they get any better, you ain't seen nothing yet!
every time I give a taxiing call straight away I always get the controller wanting me to repeat it....
so what to do... repeat the whole thing every time or just give a short burst of ABC IFR taxi, then you know they are listening and ready to copy???
so what to do... repeat the whole thing every time or just give a short burst of ABC IFR taxi, then you know they are listening and ready to copy???
Victor Hotel Kilo Oscar Bravo IFR Piper PA-31P Pressurized Navajo 850 horespower taxing at Bendigo for Cairns via Rockhampton and Hamilton Island and requsting airways clearance for climb to Flight Level 150, endurance 350 minutes, POB 6 plus pilot with epaulettes and ATPL subjects
While we're at it... it's "LEAVING FL350" not "LEFT FL350"!
WTF would you need to tell them that you have commenced descent, you already have a clearance to decend?
To be really anal. Call when "leaving FL350" this would mean that you have not already started descent. So the call should be "left FL350"
Some of my favourites are:
Pending clearance;
On climb/descent;
IFR taxi (already mentioned);
Maintaining (in radar environment or when changing frequencies).
But the one that really makes me laugh:
"Centre ABC request."
"ABC go ahead."
"ABC request FL350 IF AVAILABLE!"
All that needs to be said is "ABC request FL350". If it's not available you will not get it. Simple.
While I'm at it, who decided that The words "diagonal" or "oblique" belong in an airep? The wind is described as "250 degrees 17 knots". Jepps meteorology section.
C100 driver, it has already been pointed out why "leaving" is the required word and not "left". Again, it's what Bloggs said. Just say what you are required to say and if ATC think it's not appropriate then they can change it.
Pending clearance;
On climb/descent;
IFR taxi (already mentioned);
Maintaining (in radar environment or when changing frequencies).
But the one that really makes me laugh:
"Centre ABC request."
"ABC go ahead."
"ABC request FL350 IF AVAILABLE!"
All that needs to be said is "ABC request FL350". If it's not available you will not get it. Simple.
While I'm at it, who decided that The words "diagonal" or "oblique" belong in an airep? The wind is described as "250 degrees 17 knots". Jepps meteorology section.
C100 driver, it has already been pointed out why "leaving" is the required word and not "left". Again, it's what Bloggs said. Just say what you are required to say and if ATC think it's not appropriate then they can change it.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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left or leaving
Can anyone show me where it states leaving not left your assigned level ,
last time i looked either was correct.
P.S - if you get riled by taxi's versus taxing you really need a holiday , Australia the truly home of the anal retentive.
As previously mentioned sometimes being a robot to our beloved ASA isn't always the rightway to operate , think outside the box to encourage situational awareness - Not everyone comprehends airspace like you do - A case of experience Vs correctness.
last time i looked either was correct.
P.S - if you get riled by taxi's versus taxing you really need a holiday , Australia the truly home of the anal retentive.
As previously mentioned sometimes being a robot to our beloved ASA isn't always the rightway to operate , think outside the box to encourage situational awareness - Not everyone comprehends airspace like you do - A case of experience Vs correctness.
Last edited by flyby; 9th Jan 2012 at 04:10.
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If you have to tell them that you are 'leaving' an altitude when you are on RADAR why would you not tell them that you are 'maintaining' an altitude as ATC seem incapable of monitoring it themselves. Whilst we are on the subject why does Oz ATC use 'to' in altitude clearances e.g. Descend to 2500 feet. The rest of the world has stopped this practice and just says 'descend 2500 feet' to avoid any confusion
Oh boy the willy waving is in full swing here! Correct R/T is impossible to achieve, can't be done so common sense should prevail. We don't live in a 'Jepps' world where humans are expected to behave like airframes which can be made identical so we do our best! Use the 'kiss' method & Aviate, Navigate & leave the R/T 'till last to get perfect I say!
Wmk2
Wmk2
left or leaving
*Denotes pilot transmission
There is no mention of 'Left' or 'Leaving' in the Phraseology section.
Both gone for some time.
Elvis is leaving the building just doesn't have the same ring to it!
There is no mention of 'Left' or 'Leaving' in the Phraseology section.
Both gone for some time.
Elvis is leaving the building just doesn't have the same ring to it!
From ATC (I don't have paper copies anymore so can't give page number)
1.10.1.4 After any frequency change, pilots must advise the last assigned level and, if not maintaining the assigned level, the level maintaining or last vacated level; eg, “MELBOURNE CENTER (CALL-SIGN) CLEARED FLIGHT LEVEL TWO ONE ZERO, LEAVING FLIGHT LEVEL TWO NINER ZERO”.
NOTE: The “last vacated level” may be omitted by identified aircraft squawking pressure altitude derived level information.
If they want us to say leaving here, why would it be different for any other call?
It's not hard to do it correctly.
1.10.1.4 After any frequency change, pilots must advise the last assigned level and, if not maintaining the assigned level, the level maintaining or last vacated level; eg, “MELBOURNE CENTER (CALL-SIGN) CLEARED FLIGHT LEVEL TWO ONE ZERO, LEAVING FLIGHT LEVEL TWO NINER ZERO”.
NOTE: The “last vacated level” may be omitted by identified aircraft squawking pressure altitude derived level information.
If they want us to say leaving here, why would it be different for any other call?
It's not hard to do it correctly.
I agree it is hard to find things in the documents sometimes.
You might want to look here :
Jeppesen - ATC page AU-705 paragraph 1.10.1.4
or
AIP ENR 1.1-20 paragraph 12.1.4
To insert such information under "phraseology" would be just too much common sense for the publisher
You might want to look here :
Jeppesen - ATC page AU-705 paragraph 1.10.1.4
or
AIP ENR 1.1-20 paragraph 12.1.4
"...LEAVING FLIGHT LEVEL..."
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Any leave coming up ??
If ASA, are you kidding? Leave, I bull**** you not is now a privilege not a right. The farce that is rec leave in ASA is un-describable without most controllers going red in the face and wanting to punch the nearest object.
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Geezuz,
Get a life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
When you've been in the industry longer than six months, you'll see the procedures changing every change of CEO ( CASA or ASA ), infrequently the change is for the better.
Left, leaving, pending clearance, in-turn, traffic XXX, all stations XXX,,,,,,who cares.
Get a life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
When you've been in the industry longer than six months, you'll see the procedures changing every change of CEO ( CASA or ASA ), infrequently the change is for the better.
Left, leaving, pending clearance, in-turn, traffic XXX, all stations XXX,,,,,,who cares.
Thread Starter
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It pretty much comes down to speaking English in and English speaking country! Just speak properly! Who speaks in past tense anyway? I'm no novel writer...
Melb centre, abc?
Abc, melb centre?
Melb centre, Abc.... and the repetition continues!
Come on! Get onto it... havnt got all day. And when talking speak in present tense because what ever your doing... your actually doing it right now!
Melb centre, abc?
Abc, melb centre?
Melb centre, Abc.... and the repetition continues!
Come on! Get onto it... havnt got all day. And when talking speak in present tense because what ever your doing... your actually doing it right now!
First of all, when transmitting you are in PRESENT TENSE not PAST TENSE!
You don’t speak this way when talking on the phone or to someone face to face! eg.
Should be :
"ABC, Taxiing runway 18 for a departure to the South"
NOT
"ABC, Taxi's runway 18 for a departure to the South"
Aren't they both present tense? Notwithstanding the apostrophe which would make the second example mean "taxi is runway..." or the runway belongs to the taxi. I am on leave and am a pedantic controller!
You don’t speak this way when talking on the phone or to someone face to face! eg.
Should be :
"ABC, Taxiing runway 18 for a departure to the South"
NOT
"ABC, Taxi's runway 18 for a departure to the South"
Aren't they both present tense? Notwithstanding the apostrophe which would make the second example mean "taxi is runway..." or the runway belongs to the taxi. I am on leave and am a pedantic controller!
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are we really arguing about thisI remember hearing a Qantas pilot (B737) and a cessna caravan on floats separating themselves in a CTAF one day..
Caravan pilot says "we'll extend downwind to allow you to backtrack the runway, the passengers won't mind, we're on a little scenic up here"
Qantas pilot: "really half your luck, bloody fantastic, wish I could have joined, errr, anyway, Qantas 212 entering and backtracking the runway"
