Air Training Corps (AIRTC)/ AAFC Alumni
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Ah yes....
I don't remember much about it but I do remember........:
The trips to Malabar range where you got to shoot the .303 enfield (if you didn't bruise you didn't count), the endless drill, the hobnailed boots with no traction/tread, everyone yelling at you (I was an LAC) for no apparent reason, the Cadet Under Officer that got busted doing something reeel sus by one of the staff who was a copper in real life. (No one ever knew what it was ....)
The camps down at Wagga going for a ride in the back of the Caribou where the pilots got kicks from making us kids terrified and / or sick (it was great!!!!!).
Definitely some of the best times of my life back in the early 70's at 14flt in Wollongong....Up on the hill next to the TV Station on top of the old gun emplacements.... it was only a couple of years but time well spent before the RAAF days...... I was a bit of a troublesome kid back then and I remember getting the (probably well deserved..) cane from a teacher at school, for a misdemeanour of some sort and then being made to double around the parade ground that same Thursday night when I turned up for parade to be greeted by the same guy who was also a PltOff ....just unlucky I guess. Didn't do me any harm though...should be more of it I say!!!
Stiky
I don't remember much about it but I do remember........:
The trips to Malabar range where you got to shoot the .303 enfield (if you didn't bruise you didn't count), the endless drill, the hobnailed boots with no traction/tread, everyone yelling at you (I was an LAC) for no apparent reason, the Cadet Under Officer that got busted doing something reeel sus by one of the staff who was a copper in real life. (No one ever knew what it was ....)
The camps down at Wagga going for a ride in the back of the Caribou where the pilots got kicks from making us kids terrified and / or sick (it was great!!!!!).
Definitely some of the best times of my life back in the early 70's at 14flt in Wollongong....Up on the hill next to the TV Station on top of the old gun emplacements.... it was only a couple of years but time well spent before the RAAF days...... I was a bit of a troublesome kid back then and I remember getting the (probably well deserved..) cane from a teacher at school, for a misdemeanour of some sort and then being made to double around the parade ground that same Thursday night when I turned up for parade to be greeted by the same guy who was also a PltOff ....just unlucky I guess. Didn't do me any harm though...should be more of it I say!!!
Stiky
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Thanks V45...
You've helped me to remember some other stuff. I spoke to my parents the other day and was reminded that it was 1971 - 1973 when I was with 14Flt. I remember riding my pushbike in the dark in the rain from where we lived in Wollongong Central of a Thursday night (either Thursday or Tuesday but Thursday sticks out...) in uniform with no lights. Never any problem with yahoos in cars giving me a hard time or any other issue.
The GST camps at Wagga, thanks for reminding me of the name, for the life of me I couldn't remember what they were called. And....the morris tubes, I'd also forgotten about them. Never got to fire the SLR though until joining the RAAF in 76...(down at 1RTU... and let me tell you that's where the real yelling and some good old bastardisation began, letters from home thrown in the bucket of water, short sheeting and emptying of ashtrays in the bed, running around the parade ground with the SLR above your head, weight 10lb 15oz - I remember that one)..... I never knew that the ammunition was from India although I did get alot of experience cleaning individual bullets as part of my training (never could figure that one out!)
It's funny how society changes though, I can recall all the 303's being stored in a cage at 14Flt that had a padlock on it which was in one of the buildings that ony had grated type wire on the windows. Mind you the Flt was within a fenced in compound. My point is, no one ever broke in there to steal a rifle, there was never any vandalism of the place that I can remember and I don't ever remember anyone being hassled or made fun of because they were part of AIRTC (not that happens today anyway....).
I must be getting old but I still reckon it didn't do me amy harm..
Stiky
You've helped me to remember some other stuff. I spoke to my parents the other day and was reminded that it was 1971 - 1973 when I was with 14Flt. I remember riding my pushbike in the dark in the rain from where we lived in Wollongong Central of a Thursday night (either Thursday or Tuesday but Thursday sticks out...) in uniform with no lights. Never any problem with yahoos in cars giving me a hard time or any other issue.
The GST camps at Wagga, thanks for reminding me of the name, for the life of me I couldn't remember what they were called. And....the morris tubes, I'd also forgotten about them. Never got to fire the SLR though until joining the RAAF in 76...(down at 1RTU... and let me tell you that's where the real yelling and some good old bastardisation began, letters from home thrown in the bucket of water, short sheeting and emptying of ashtrays in the bed, running around the parade ground with the SLR above your head, weight 10lb 15oz - I remember that one)..... I never knew that the ammunition was from India although I did get alot of experience cleaning individual bullets as part of my training (never could figure that one out!)
It's funny how society changes though, I can recall all the 303's being stored in a cage at 14Flt that had a padlock on it which was in one of the buildings that ony had grated type wire on the windows. Mind you the Flt was within a fenced in compound. My point is, no one ever broke in there to steal a rifle, there was never any vandalism of the place that I can remember and I don't ever remember anyone being hassled or made fun of because they were part of AIRTC (not that happens today anyway....).
I must be getting old but I still reckon it didn't do me amy harm..
Stiky
Last edited by Stikybeke; 10th Jan 2012 at 20:39.
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My flight had some 9 or 10 decommissioned SLRs that we had for drill practice only - no firing pin and the barrels were welded, but they looked and sounded the stuff during drill and weapons training. I remember some young kids jaws hitting the ground as a group of us grabbed the rifles out of the back of the instructors car and did a gratuitous check safe on them just prior to a cenotaph guard for ANZAC day.
On the last day of the gun buyback amnesty an instructor took the SLRs down to the police to hand them in. Apparently, while in the queue with 10 SLRs someone told him he was lucky he wasn't arrested on the spot
We got to shoot off some SLRs once at Richmond. I think we had at least two cadets bruise their cheek with the recoil, and one guy was so proud because he got a casing shaped burn mark from where it ejected onto his arm.
I think we were also the first promotion course to get taught Styer drill (but missed out on shooting them) to use for our passing out parade. Reason was Browwyn Bishop was reviewing and as defence minister we had to turn out a proper general salute for her (or so we were told). Funniest part was the parade officer (a 6'4" WOFF) escorting the 4' defence minister during the review to the sound of "Darth Vaders march".
My first GST at Richmond we were waiting in a hangar for a ride in a herc, and some cadets discovered the massive stash of pr0n in the toilets. A sudden rush of male cadets to go to the toilet then started, with a number coming back with a small portion of that collection stuffed under their greens.
Also got to experience hanging my feet out the back of a caribou doing 500ft over coastal headlands, and standing on a building at a bombing range while an F-111 did a 100-200ft pass over the top of us (the sound nearly knocked us off the building).
I took part in the IACE program and did an exchange to France for 2 weeks, which was basically a contiki tour of France supported by the French Air Force in company with 11 different countries cadet/youth flying organisations. We got to see some cool stuff like the Arianne rocket factory, the Airbus factory and some tours of one or two air bases we flew between. We also got to do the normal tourist stuff and experience local culture which was pretty good for a 16 year old
I enjoyed a lot about the AIRTC, met my wife and a few friends through there and gained a lot of experiences I could not have got otherwise. The parts I did not enjoy (cliques, how who you know matters more than proper process, egos at work etc) did set me up wider eyed for later in life.
On the last day of the gun buyback amnesty an instructor took the SLRs down to the police to hand them in. Apparently, while in the queue with 10 SLRs someone told him he was lucky he wasn't arrested on the spot
We got to shoot off some SLRs once at Richmond. I think we had at least two cadets bruise their cheek with the recoil, and one guy was so proud because he got a casing shaped burn mark from where it ejected onto his arm.
I think we were also the first promotion course to get taught Styer drill (but missed out on shooting them) to use for our passing out parade. Reason was Browwyn Bishop was reviewing and as defence minister we had to turn out a proper general salute for her (or so we were told). Funniest part was the parade officer (a 6'4" WOFF) escorting the 4' defence minister during the review to the sound of "Darth Vaders march".
My first GST at Richmond we were waiting in a hangar for a ride in a herc, and some cadets discovered the massive stash of pr0n in the toilets. A sudden rush of male cadets to go to the toilet then started, with a number coming back with a small portion of that collection stuffed under their greens.
Also got to experience hanging my feet out the back of a caribou doing 500ft over coastal headlands, and standing on a building at a bombing range while an F-111 did a 100-200ft pass over the top of us (the sound nearly knocked us off the building).
I took part in the IACE program and did an exchange to France for 2 weeks, which was basically a contiki tour of France supported by the French Air Force in company with 11 different countries cadet/youth flying organisations. We got to see some cool stuff like the Arianne rocket factory, the Airbus factory and some tours of one or two air bases we flew between. We also got to do the normal tourist stuff and experience local culture which was pretty good for a 16 year old
I enjoyed a lot about the AIRTC, met my wife and a few friends through there and gained a lot of experiences I could not have got otherwise. The parts I did not enjoy (cliques, how who you know matters more than proper process, egos at work etc) did set me up wider eyed for later in life.
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Bundy, Stiky & V45,
I know someone who will be very happy to hear that your memories of various exploits, are good & happy ones; he would've helped facilitate them.
Thanks
Me? Best memory is being allowed to (lightly) touch the controls of a 'bou on the way back from a task around Nowra. I think I was 16. Fun morning's work, that.
I know someone who will be very happy to hear that your memories of various exploits, are good & happy ones; he would've helped facilitate them.
Thanks
Me? Best memory is being allowed to (lightly) touch the controls of a 'bou on the way back from a task around Nowra. I think I was 16. Fun morning's work, that.
Last edited by Taildragger67; 20th Jan 2012 at 08:14.
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Hey Bundy and TD!!!.....WTF??????
You got to go to France at age what? and TD, you got to fly the Bou at age what after you finished dropping bouys into the drink off Nowra?
Sounds like the rest of us were in the wrong Flights!!
Stiky
You got to go to France at age what? and TD, you got to fly the Bou at age what after you finished dropping bouys into the drink off Nowra?
Sounds like the rest of us were in the wrong Flights!!
Stiky
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Let me clarify - I was allowed to sit in the F/O's seat whilst he went down the back to make a call on the p!ssaphone. I was allowed to place a hand lightly on the yoke as the PIC made some attitude adjustments. I'm gilding the lily somewhat to say I had the ship. Have modified previous post accordingly.
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V45, I was in 18 Flt too. By that time (early-mid 1980s) it was at Laguna Street Public School in Caringbah. We picked up a heap of drill purpose L1A1s, enough to equip all of 18 Flt for parades. Also had several SMLE .303 No1 MkIII, a No4, and IIRC a 'Jungle Carbine', a number of bolt action .22s, and a BREN gun (sadly deactivated).
I suspect 318 Sqn (18 Flt's successor) doesn't have such a cool array of weapon systems!
GSTs ... I'd forgotten that name! I did three or four GSTs at Willy & Fairbairn, adventure training at Orange, and JNCO & SNCO courses at Willy & Richmond respectively. Had plenty of UH-1H flights, one Caribou flight, and twice missed out on a flight in a Miracle by "this much ...!!!"
Happy days.
I suspect 318 Sqn (18 Flt's successor) doesn't have such a cool array of weapon systems!
GSTs ... I'd forgotten that name! I did three or four GSTs at Willy & Fairbairn, adventure training at Orange, and JNCO & SNCO courses at Willy & Richmond respectively. Had plenty of UH-1H flights, one Caribou flight, and twice missed out on a flight in a Miracle by "this much ...!!!"
Happy days.
Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
I have a photo lying on top of 18FLT's 46 SLRs just before taking them to the buy back. The Bren got far less in the buy back than an SLR did.
318SQN still has .22s- about 12 of them I think.
After Laguna st 18FLT went to Port Hacking High in about 1991, moved to Cronulla High about 96 or early 97, then to the Sutherland multi user depot (a name for a place that purports to be for the use of 'multi users' but instead is for the sole use of th ARes with the AAFC pushed into sub standard accommodation for what they are trying to achieve) about 2004/5. I may be wrong on the date of the move to the MUD.
You were a bit before my time Like this- do that but Col Palmer is now back at 318 after very successful stints in NSW HQ and then as Commander AAFC.
318SQN still has .22s- about 12 of them I think.
After Laguna st 18FLT went to Port Hacking High in about 1991, moved to Cronulla High about 96 or early 97, then to the Sutherland multi user depot (a name for a place that purports to be for the use of 'multi users' but instead is for the sole use of th ARes with the AAFC pushed into sub standard accommodation for what they are trying to achieve) about 2004/5. I may be wrong on the date of the move to the MUD.
You were a bit before my time Like this- do that but Col Palmer is now back at 318 after very successful stints in NSW HQ and then as Commander AAFC.
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Keg, I had a chat with some AAFC officers in the mess at Richmond ... 7? 8? months ago. I asked about Colin Palmer and heard he'd taken a reduction in rank to return to command 318.
I occasionally wonder about former members. Do you know if Frank Barclay is still with us? I haven't seen him for over a decade.
I occasionally wonder about former members. Do you know if Frank Barclay is still with us? I haven't seen him for over a decade.
Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
Col's tenure as CDR-AAFC ended and he's been one of the few to take a reduction in rank once his 'job' no longer entailed that rank. He's not commanding 318 though. He still has national responsibility for .22 policy and training of range control officers.
Frank passed away a few years back- not sure exactly when. Lovely bloke and a great supporter of 18FLT/ 318SQN.
I think 318 still parade on a Wednesday evening if ever you're in the area.
Frank passed away a few years back- not sure exactly when. Lovely bloke and a great supporter of 18FLT/ 318SQN.
I think 318 still parade on a Wednesday evening if ever you're in the area.
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anyone mention camden.....
thought it appropriate to mention Camden. Bottom hut is still there, top hut went up in smoke.
Interesting to see the number of current senior RAAF staff were ex ants. At one stage the 3 fighter CO's were ex gliding or flying scolarship recipients.
where do you get it?????
Interesting to see the number of current senior RAAF staff were ex ants. At one stage the 3 fighter CO's were ex gliding or flying scolarship recipients.
where do you get it?????
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Froze my arse off many times in the bottom hut, way back when in the 70's, on Field Training and Alan Lear's Aeromuddling camps.
Who remembers the "Camden Knobs" cooked in the mess up the top?
Who remembers the "Camden Knobs" cooked in the mess up the top?
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Ants.!!!!
I'd forgotten that name...I remember poor old FtLt Kennedy who I think was one of the forefathers of AIRTC down at 14flt who never said too much but carried a fair bit of clout!!!.I think he's since passed away.....and there was also one of the CUO's, a really nice bloke, Chris Wylie, who joined the RAAF as a pilot and was at 77sqn but later tragically lost his life in a midair with another Mirage somewhere near Townsville if memory serves me correctly.....
Ah the memories are starting to come back...
Stiky
I'd forgotten that name...I remember poor old FtLt Kennedy who I think was one of the forefathers of AIRTC down at 14flt who never said too much but carried a fair bit of clout!!!.I think he's since passed away.....and there was also one of the CUO's, a really nice bloke, Chris Wylie, who joined the RAAF as a pilot and was at 77sqn but later tragically lost his life in a midair with another Mirage somewhere near Townsville if memory serves me correctly.....
Ah the memories are starting to come back...
Stiky
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Just FYI lads, Vic "Dizzy" Divola (former CO NSWSQN) departed for The Great Flight in the Sky just a few months ago. Not many of the 'old hands' to go... 
Keg,
Are there still any .303s (some perhaps the .22 version?) at ex-18Flt?
Ah, Camden... did my powered flying course there, soloed after Greg Ferster just told me to pull off the TWY and jumped out, saying 'off you go, just do a couple of circuits and come back'. Nothing will ever beat that feeling of my first solo climb-out at about 8am on a sunny summer morning.
Also did my CDTSGT promotion course there (met Ken Paris for the first time - lovingly woken each morning with him banging a rubbish bin yelling "hands off ****s, on socks").
Also did a gliding week at Bathurst (and managed to pick up chicken pox, still got the scars), an annual GST and CDTCPL promo at Riccy, plus my CUO course with TAS Sqn in Hobart. Fun days.
As for the brass, I think Angus Houston was an Ant; not sure about the current crop.
Keg,
Are there still any .303s (some perhaps the .22 version?) at ex-18Flt?
Ah, Camden... did my powered flying course there, soloed after Greg Ferster just told me to pull off the TWY and jumped out, saying 'off you go, just do a couple of circuits and come back'. Nothing will ever beat that feeling of my first solo climb-out at about 8am on a sunny summer morning.
Also did my CDTSGT promotion course there (met Ken Paris for the first time - lovingly woken each morning with him banging a rubbish bin yelling "hands off ****s, on socks").
Also did a gliding week at Bathurst (and managed to pick up chicken pox, still got the scars), an annual GST and CDTCPL promo at Riccy, plus my CUO course with TAS Sqn in Hobart. Fun days.
As for the brass, I think Angus Houston was an Ant; not sure about the current crop.
My best memory was one of the last federally funded squadron bivs at Peachy Forest. A lovely little place that would get rather cold in August....THE best bit was lining up in a chalk to await an Iroquois to land on the side of the New England Highway(Seriously!) Skids on the ground thumbs up from the crewy and two sticks...er chalks on and we were gone. Near new PRC25 radioes (HQ had 75s to talk to the choppers) and those fashionable survival hats and ALL the food you could eat, cooked up by a detachment from the Amberley Airman's Mess...Cookies luved us ants.
It was a shock to see what we persevered with after 75. But survive we did!
WOD on the back of one giant formation in Warana 77 or 78. I think we had over 200 cadets all marching as one unit. Now that was fun sizeing up
tallest on the left shortest on the right....You know...thats what the current mob just haven't got right..We had cadence in our drill...from leather soled ABs to the way we gave our commands. Very "It Aint Alf Ot Mum". When we marched you could tell we were in step...you could hear it a mile away. Coming to a halt...those check paces just quickened a fraction...now it looks like a lead in to Bolshoi number...bludy army drill..ruined everything!
It was a shock to see what we persevered with after 75. But survive we did!
WOD on the back of one giant formation in Warana 77 or 78. I think we had over 200 cadets all marching as one unit. Now that was fun sizeing up
tallest on the left shortest on the right....You know...thats what the current mob just haven't got right..We had cadence in our drill...from leather soled ABs to the way we gave our commands. Very "It Aint Alf Ot Mum". When we marched you could tell we were in step...you could hear it a mile away. Coming to a halt...those check paces just quickened a fraction...now it looks like a lead in to Bolshoi number...bludy army drill..ruined everything!
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Don't like the organisation at all.
Had a person start up at YDLQ (initials "DA") a few years ago....was going to close my business and take over my student list!! didn't last long....didn't do much for ATC's reputation in that part of the world!
I've meet heaps of ATC students since (not from YDLQ) that have the 'right' attitude and will go far.
Had a person start up at YDLQ (initials "DA") a few years ago....was going to close my business and take over my student list!! didn't last long....didn't do much for ATC's reputation in that part of the world!
I've meet heaps of ATC students since (not from YDLQ) that have the 'right' attitude and will go far.
Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
Taildragger, 318 still has the .303s. They use them for ceremonial occasions. The vets love seeing cadets using the .303 for drill on Anzac day.
cficare. Sorry you had a bad experience with the AAFC at Deniliquin although I don't get your story. If they were starting a SQN then how was that going to take your student list?!? Or was it an AAFC staff member who moved to DLQ and was going to start a business as their private income whilst running the SQN.
The reality is that for every great AIRTC/ AAFC staff member there is at least one- and depending on your region, significantly more- staff members who are having the military career that they never had in the military. They get off on the uniform, the salutes, the perceived 'power' of lording it over teenagers and other staff. I would tolerate those people if they were still enabling some great opportunities for cadets but as soon as the focus of their Walter Mitty antics detracted significantly from the cadet outcome then I did my best to shine the spotlight on them.
I still think that the organisation delivers great outcomes if you're in the right SQN. There are certainly SQNs where I would NOT send my child.
cficare. Sorry you had a bad experience with the AAFC at Deniliquin although I don't get your story. If they were starting a SQN then how was that going to take your student list?!? Or was it an AAFC staff member who moved to DLQ and was going to start a business as their private income whilst running the SQN.
The reality is that for every great AIRTC/ AAFC staff member there is at least one- and depending on your region, significantly more- staff members who are having the military career that they never had in the military. They get off on the uniform, the salutes, the perceived 'power' of lording it over teenagers and other staff. I would tolerate those people if they were still enabling some great opportunities for cadets but as soon as the focus of their Walter Mitty antics detracted significantly from the cadet outcome then I did my best to shine the spotlight on them.
I still think that the organisation delivers great outcomes if you're in the right SQN. There are certainly SQNs where I would NOT send my child.
