QF to VA....to jump or not to jump....
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QF to VA....to jump or not to jump....
Gday all,
Id be interested to hear peoples thoughts. Im currently an SO on the 380 with QF. I have also been on the 744. Im about 300 off the bottom of the list, and have been with QF for almost 8 years. About 60-70 or so below me have gone on LWOP (so make that 230 off the bottom). I'm 33.
In the current climate, and under the current management, there appears to be know prospect of promotion any time soon. International is also shrinking, jobs are being off shored etc. Add to this the fact that the tendency when reaching 65 appears to be bidding back to the 737 or to FO, the stagnation only gets worse. My career aim has always been Short Haul, and it definitely suits my family life etc much better. According to allocations, I'm about 25 in line for an east coast 737 slot, and the predictions are for only a small handful of slots each year (maybe 5?). By their estimates, I'm 4 years away from anything...if I'm still employed!!
VA are currently recruiting. As a disclaimer, I don't for one second assume I'd get in, or that i'd even get an interview, as in my mind, people coming from Qlink/REX etc are way more current etc than me.
I'd be interested to know what people genuinely believe would be the way to go if one was ever presented with the opportunity to leave QF for VA. Please, no QF slanging, and this is not a 'QF skygod' thinking he can go wherever he wants. Just a fellow pilot who is very concerned about his career, not to mention just keeping a job at all.
Thanks
SOforlife (hopefully not...)
Id be interested to hear peoples thoughts. Im currently an SO on the 380 with QF. I have also been on the 744. Im about 300 off the bottom of the list, and have been with QF for almost 8 years. About 60-70 or so below me have gone on LWOP (so make that 230 off the bottom). I'm 33.
In the current climate, and under the current management, there appears to be know prospect of promotion any time soon. International is also shrinking, jobs are being off shored etc. Add to this the fact that the tendency when reaching 65 appears to be bidding back to the 737 or to FO, the stagnation only gets worse. My career aim has always been Short Haul, and it definitely suits my family life etc much better. According to allocations, I'm about 25 in line for an east coast 737 slot, and the predictions are for only a small handful of slots each year (maybe 5?). By their estimates, I'm 4 years away from anything...if I'm still employed!!
VA are currently recruiting. As a disclaimer, I don't for one second assume I'd get in, or that i'd even get an interview, as in my mind, people coming from Qlink/REX etc are way more current etc than me.
I'd be interested to know what people genuinely believe would be the way to go if one was ever presented with the opportunity to leave QF for VA. Please, no QF slanging, and this is not a 'QF skygod' thinking he can go wherever he wants. Just a fellow pilot who is very concerned about his career, not to mention just keeping a job at all.
Thanks
SOforlife (hopefully not...)
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With Bowtie Jimmy and a couple of other toe cutters on the board I'd say the company you couldn't believe you HAD gotten into eight years ago, is stuffed.
I flew short haul with the odd long over water flights and there was no way I'd have ever joined your mob to get onto the Jumbo which people thought was the pinnacle.
Short haul is for pilots who actually remember the days when they were sponges, wanting to absorb EVERYTHING to do with flying and couldn't wait to get into a cockpit. It could be the one we were going to hit the starter in, or it could be the one we drooled over... one with constant speed AND a gear handle.
Did you do low level circuits as often as possible so you could get another two takeoffs and landings in, in the hour because you loved flying?
Second officer! What a soul destroying way to waste your life. Do you go and fly a lightie so you actually have a fly of an aeroplane?
First officer in a short haul… you will be part of the team rather than an observer. You’ll be watching and learning and being able to try doing things yourself.
Lots of take offs and landings… isn’t that what flying’s about.
International over water flights for me, seemed to be nothing but constant re-calculating CPs and PNRs with another line up through customs at the end of the day.
My advice to you is, put yourself back in your mindset of twenty years, then fifteen, then ten years ago and remember what it is you thought you’d be today.
Remember… Clean cut, square jaw… leader, LEFT hand seat?
Bowtie Jimmy went into a great airline and sorted it out.
Changed the name, colour scheme… uniforms, all of which every employee was immensely proud and bent over backwards to do their best for.
Where’s TAA now?
Same place Qantas is going. And HE’LL walk away with a knighthood and a squillion.
Guess what? I didn't fly for TAA but was pretty shat off at seeing its demise as I am over Qantas.
I flew short haul with the odd long over water flights and there was no way I'd have ever joined your mob to get onto the Jumbo which people thought was the pinnacle.
Short haul is for pilots who actually remember the days when they were sponges, wanting to absorb EVERYTHING to do with flying and couldn't wait to get into a cockpit. It could be the one we were going to hit the starter in, or it could be the one we drooled over... one with constant speed AND a gear handle.
Did you do low level circuits as often as possible so you could get another two takeoffs and landings in, in the hour because you loved flying?
Second officer! What a soul destroying way to waste your life. Do you go and fly a lightie so you actually have a fly of an aeroplane?
First officer in a short haul… you will be part of the team rather than an observer. You’ll be watching and learning and being able to try doing things yourself.
Lots of take offs and landings… isn’t that what flying’s about.
International over water flights for me, seemed to be nothing but constant re-calculating CPs and PNRs with another line up through customs at the end of the day.
My advice to you is, put yourself back in your mindset of twenty years, then fifteen, then ten years ago and remember what it is you thought you’d be today.
Remember… Clean cut, square jaw… leader, LEFT hand seat?
Bowtie Jimmy went into a great airline and sorted it out.
Changed the name, colour scheme… uniforms, all of which every employee was immensely proud and bent over backwards to do their best for.
Where’s TAA now?
Same place Qantas is going. And HE’LL walk away with a knighthood and a squillion.
Guess what? I didn't fly for TAA but was pretty shat off at seeing its demise as I am over Qantas.
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8 years as an SO? And another 4 to go? 
There's no doubt you work for an immoral management that has lost its values and it way. To expect anybody to SO for 12 years is a disgrace.
You should work for my company (not) (not an airline) as soon as the ink is dry on your licence they are pushing you onto your next endorsement (you don't get the pay for it though)
And another 4 to go? There's no doubt you work for an immoral management that has lost its values and it way. To expect anybody to SO for 12 years is a disgrace.
You should work for my company (not) (not an airline) as soon as the ink is dry on your licence they are pushing you onto your next endorsement (you don't get the pay for it though)
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You know what mate?
Hang in there. I think the tides will turn shortly. In fact I think a lot of people are getting very sick of the Joyce Clifford line up. They are change management and change managements never last long. They are there to break the unions. If anything, the union resolve has grown stronger as the little man realises he needs a union to be protected from these corporate bullies.
Qantas is still something to be proud of as a Pilot. The current management will be gone soon and it will be business as usual for Qantas Pilots from then on.
VA while looking good now is only one management appointment away from being the next Qantas.
If these buffons do send Qantas to the wall, guess where they will appear next?
Hang on tight mate. Or take LWOP and go to onestar for a stint. An east coast base should not be too far off after less than 12 months in Darwin.
Hang in there. I think the tides will turn shortly. In fact I think a lot of people are getting very sick of the Joyce Clifford line up. They are change management and change managements never last long. They are there to break the unions. If anything, the union resolve has grown stronger as the little man realises he needs a union to be protected from these corporate bullies.
Qantas is still something to be proud of as a Pilot. The current management will be gone soon and it will be business as usual for Qantas Pilots from then on.
VA while looking good now is only one management appointment away from being the next Qantas.
If these buffons do send Qantas to the wall, guess where they will appear next?
Hang on tight mate. Or take LWOP and go to onestar for a stint. An east coast base should not be too far off after less than 12 months in Darwin.
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Seems to me that VA ticks a lot of boxes for you, i.e. you'd probably go in as FO (or have less time as CrzFO compared to 4 more years of SO at QF), have much less time to wait for a command, and get to do short haul (again, fairly soon if not immediately). Plus what sixtiesrelic says.
If I were in your shoes I'd take the opportunity if it came up. Only thing I'd be hesitant about would be the need to pay for endo first.
Good luck.
I now know that not getting into QF a few years back was a blessing in disguise (that's what I told myself when I got the thanks but no thanks letter
). It's a real shame it has come to this. The greed of a few affecting thousands for the worse.
If I were in your shoes I'd take the opportunity if it came up. Only thing I'd be hesitant about would be the need to pay for endo first.
Good luck.
I now know that not getting into QF a few years back was a blessing in disguise (that's what I told myself when I got the thanks but no thanks letter
). It's a real shame it has come to this. The greed of a few affecting thousands for the worse.
Last edited by BoundaryLayer; 6th Dec 2011 at 00:17. Reason: Added a comment
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Listen mate, hang in there, you don't know how good you have got it at the moment. From someone who worked for a legacy carrier in Europe that was going through similar things as Qantas is now, I jumped ship when the prospect of Redundancies were mentioned along with 78 other pilots. Here we are 3 years down the line and no redundancies were ever forced and the airline is now expanding and has new aircraft on order. Your pay and conditions are amongst the best in the world and it is very easy to start to suffer from 'silo' mentality when it appears promotion prospects and career security are looking dodgy. Trust me when I say it ain't no better anywhere else at the moment. Every airline I have ever worked for has it's issues, some are huge and some are not so huge. If I were you I would 'make' Qantas move me on with a nice little payout, in reality it will probably not happen, there will be enough like me who will jump before being pushed and then regret it later when all of a sudden there is an upturn and mates who stayed are all of a sudden getting that promotion that seemed like it would never come.
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If I were in your shoes I'd take the opportunity if it came up. Only thing I'd be hesitant about would be the need to pay for endo first.
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SOforlife, bear in ind that if you go to VA on the B777 as a CzFO you will take a pretty big pay hit. Level 1 CzFO salary is $78k + +. As A FO on the Ejet or B737 you would make more (~$120k ??) but have to cough up for the type rating.
Unless you really feel the need to move, you are probably better off where you are. At VA, you will be about 10 years to command. I predict that it wil take longer for commands in the future as the price of oil goes up and less people travel.
If I were you (and I'm not!), go for the money. Consider how much Superannuation you will make where you are and what you will make elsewhere. It will add up to a large differential in the long term.
Unless you really feel the need to move, you are probably better off where you are. At VA, you will be about 10 years to command. I predict that it wil take longer for commands in the future as the price of oil goes up and less people travel.
If I were you (and I'm not!), go for the money. Consider how much Superannuation you will make where you are and what you will make elsewhere. It will add up to a large differential in the long term.
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If I were in your shoes (sadly I'm not), I would hang in there!
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Thanks folks, all valid points.
The decision would be a hard one, no doubt. With all the uncertainty surrounding QF, and all the positivity surrounding VA, it seems like a no brainer. But its something I'm definitely considering. I just can't see anything getting better at QF, only more shrinking of international ops, eventually demotions and redundancies. Very sad indeed.
Might just submit that application with VA. Can't hurt to have the hat in the ring. Its not like anything would happen overnight anyway.
Thanks for all the advice
The decision would be a hard one, no doubt. With all the uncertainty surrounding QF, and all the positivity surrounding VA, it seems like a no brainer. But its something I'm definitely considering. I just can't see anything getting better at QF, only more shrinking of international ops, eventually demotions and redundancies. Very sad indeed.
Might just submit that application with VA. Can't hurt to have the hat in the ring. Its not like anything would happen overnight anyway.
Thanks for all the advice
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What have you lost by giving it a run? You don't have to actually take it, if on the off chance they do make you an offer. At least then you can decide......
