Norfolk Island Ditching ATSB Report - ?
From what I understand, at the time AWK ops, and for that matter Charter, were not required to carry an alternate for Norfolk! WX/Notams notwithstanding of course. Hello CASA, was anyone home! Now from a command point of view, I'd be extremely cautious about embarking on such a flight without at least another option up my sleeve. I'm assuming of course that the captain had calculated his relevant PNRs/CPs.
That brings us to the question, at what point did the crew learn the Wx at norfolk required an alternate, and was this information passed to them in time to take a different course of action?
That brings us to the question, at what point did the crew learn the Wx at norfolk required an alternate, and was this information passed to them in time to take a different course of action?
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It's a fair question to ask krusty, and from distant memory when myself and a couple of others reviewed times distances and the weather being passed to the pilots, they could have made New Cal.
Probaly a good reason they did not want to!
Probaly a good reason they did not want to!
Jingles old mate that is SOPs for the regulator and bureau these days...the word in bold says it all I'm afraid:
Unless you have big pockets or a roo on your tail, nothing of consequence in other words, then noone gives a rat's rear end!
Gobbles sums it up perfectly:
A ditching, Air-work category, jet, night time, in the ocean!
Gobbles sums it up perfectly:
A tough regulator is not afraid to take the big boys on, head on, and not willing to allow its testicles to be squeezed by the Minister, Board and other lines of protection. This is your starting point to achieve a higher standard of safety in the industry. Every time one of the 'big guys' f*cks up CASA should be throwing a rope around the accountable persons neck in that airline and punish them in accordance with the civil aviation act. You only have to do it once and the indsutry CEO/COO rogues will quickly take their money and run for safer grounds. Until that starts to happen there will be absolutely no improvement in safety or minimisation of risk. It's time for CASA to stop playing hand puppets with farmhand chopper pilots and chasing operators who forget to tuck in their uniforms while on duty, it is time to asctually oversight safety.
Justice seeker rule 101 from the "bureaucratese" Ops manual, "if in doubt circle the wagons and prepare for a long seige and....."
..do not resurface until the coast is clear!"
..do not resurface until the coast is clear!"
Nowhere to go....
On long oceanic legs any pilot that had no alternate or is not fazed by the wx either,.. imho ...has steel balls and can land anything anywhere...or just a lead brain. PVT, CHTR, AWK...does it matter.
The guy that should get THE medal was the one who used his initiative and had a look from some high ground and spotted a faint light....as rough indicator as where to go with the boat.
Had that not occured..or the view been obscured by rain, it would be another AE type mystery...where DID they end up, apart from in the water. How about that for a 'miracle'?
Well I supose you could say he could land anything, anywhere....except it just was not the desired destination.
Scary.
The guy that should get THE medal was the one who used his initiative and had a look from some high ground and spotted a faint light....as rough indicator as where to go with the boat.
Had that not occured..or the view been obscured by rain, it would be another AE type mystery...where DID they end up, apart from in the water. How about that for a 'miracle'?
Well I supose you could say he could land anything, anywhere....except it just was not the desired destination.
Scary.
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What did the client specify??
Jinglie, believe Al is correct. The client specified their flights to be operated to charter standard together with a whole bunch of other requirements.
ATSB report is due shortly I am told.
ATSB report is due shortly I am told.
Jinglie, in order for it to be Airwork Category, ie an Air Ambulance operation, the patient or patients representatives must have contracted with Pelair to provide that aeromedical service. As I understand it, they did not. The clinical coordination was done through Careflight who accepted the case and chartered an aircraft and crew from Pelair as they did regularly. So for Pelair, it was a Charter.
If you have different info, would be glad to hear it.
Regardless of that though, to launch on that flight with air in the tanks and the load capacity to take more weight in fuel cannot be a wise decision.
Aroa is dead right about the only hero in the whole sorry saga - give that man a medal!
If you have different info, would be glad to hear it.
Regardless of that though, to launch on that flight with air in the tanks and the load capacity to take more weight in fuel cannot be a wise decision.
Aroa is dead right about the only hero in the whole sorry saga - give that man a medal!
I think it matters none what Cat this flight was conducted under (Air Work according to the report so far) it's still an A/C carrying people but the one underlying problem here is that less than max fuel was carried to an remote Is at night where the Wx was or could have been sus (as it turned obviously was very sus) in a light twin,that's the part that needs to be hammered home,simply be smart about the operation from a safety stand point not from a commercial stand point.
They where damned lucky it was a West Wind Jet you couldn't pick a better airframe to ditch with, engines up out of the way,fair amount of fuse blw the wings making it like a canoe with large outriggers!
Doesn't matter what the report says or will say eventually does anybody ever learn from the mistakes of others in aviation?....rarely!
Wmk2
They where damned lucky it was a West Wind Jet you couldn't pick a better airframe to ditch with, engines up out of the way,fair amount of fuse blw the wings making it like a canoe with large outriggers!
Doesn't matter what the report says or will say eventually does anybody ever learn from the mistakes of others in aviation?....rarely!
Wmk2
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Changes after the Event
I hope it won't result in an in-effective report like the Darwin Brasilia, where "....the Company involved has now gone to simulator training....so this won't happen again..."
Sorry - my paraphrasing of the report that came out sans any SR's [safety recommendations] by ATSB.
Anyway, casa never take any notice of them anyway.
We will see - ATSB you are on notice.
Sorry - my paraphrasing of the report that came out sans any SR's [safety recommendations] by ATSB.
Anyway, casa never take any notice of them anyway.
We will see - ATSB you are on notice.
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The report should be released next thursday. It has been a long time coming. We will see if the lion share of blame is laid at the feet of the regulator, the operator or the pilot.
Jinglie may be close to the mark about a circus.
Jinglie may be close to the mark about a circus.
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From what I have heard, most of the blame is directed at the crew. There are only minor criticisms of the operator and regulator.
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It appears someone has sent a copy to the media. The slant of this article suggests it is not good news for the pilot.
Four Corners is going to tell the "real story of what happened that night." So I guess they have also got a copy if they have produced a story over the last couple of weeks. Hopefully it will be better than the 60 minutes story at the time.
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It appears someone has sent a copy to the media. The slant of this article suggests it is not good news for the pilot.
Four Corners is going to tell the "real story of what happened that night." So I guess they have also got a copy if they have produced a story over the last couple of weeks. Hopefully it will be better than the 60 minutes story at the time.