Cirrus SR20/22
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Cirrus SR20/22
Hi folks,
was at the bundy show on the weekend with a friend (who is well off) that wants to buy an aircraft. After much deliberation he has decided that a cirrus is the most appealing aircraft for the purpose he would like to use it for.
I have never had anythhing to do with buying an aircraftso I figured I'd ask the ppruners. First of all is it beneificial to source one from the states and have it shipped here or just source one in aus. From what I can see it seems you can pick up a good buy in the US, just not sure on shipping/rego costs etc once here.
Also, what is everyones opinion of these aircraft. The look and feel nice to sit in but I've never flown one. Thanks in advance guys for the feedback.
Rocket
was at the bundy show on the weekend with a friend (who is well off) that wants to buy an aircraft. After much deliberation he has decided that a cirrus is the most appealing aircraft for the purpose he would like to use it for.
I have never had anythhing to do with buying an aircraftso I figured I'd ask the ppruners. First of all is it beneificial to source one from the states and have it shipped here or just source one in aus. From what I can see it seems you can pick up a good buy in the US, just not sure on shipping/rego costs etc once here.
Also, what is everyones opinion of these aircraft. The look and feel nice to sit in but I've never flown one. Thanks in advance guys for the feedback.
Rocket
Yeah I'd second Dr.'s opinion there.
There are some seriously cheap ones around used. Cirrus makes no apologies that they bring out new models just like cars and many folk just keep on upgrading to the new models.
The used ones drop to scary prices in just a few years.
Heck as the Dr. will attest to, for little more than our 30 year old Bo's and 210's etc. you can get a Cirrus only a few years old.
So they sure are value for money.
However, I am not sure what they will look like when they have the years/hours on them that our Bo's and 210's have now.
They fly nice. All the toys. Fast. But yeah I hired one for about 20 hours as I was keen to buy one, but couldn't live with it. Got a 210 instead !!
There are some seriously cheap ones around used. Cirrus makes no apologies that they bring out new models just like cars and many folk just keep on upgrading to the new models.
The used ones drop to scary prices in just a few years.
Heck as the Dr. will attest to, for little more than our 30 year old Bo's and 210's etc. you can get a Cirrus only a few years old.
So they sure are value for money.
However, I am not sure what they will look like when they have the years/hours on them that our Bo's and 210's have now.
They fly nice. All the toys. Fast. But yeah I hired one for about 20 hours as I was keen to buy one, but couldn't live with it. Got a 210 instead !!
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Dr I assume your referring sheepishly to the composite wings etc that break down if left in the sun for years??? Hadn't thought about that but this sucker will have a box to puT it in.
Yes I noticed they dropped in value rather quickly. It's a tax write off anyway (depreciation) so that'll help!! Any idea on shipping it over and the dreaded CASA rego etc!
Rocket
Yes I noticed they dropped in value rather quickly. It's a tax write off anyway (depreciation) so that'll help!! Any idea on shipping it over and the dreaded CASA rego etc!
Rocket
How much can we spend for this friend? I find the plastic planes fast cramped and well, just plastic. Id rather spend serious money on an A36 or something you can use in Australia like a 182 loaded with luxuries
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I was talking to a relatively new A36 Bonanza owner a few months ago. He mentioned that he was very close to buying a Cirrus. He met another A36 owner, and was taken for a flight and had a chat about the Bo', compared to the Cirrus. He was quickly convinced that buying an A36 was a much better choice in the end.
On the other hand, the DAME I use to do my medicals, tells me he loves his Cirrus.
All a matter of opinion I guess.
On the other hand, the DAME I use to do my medicals, tells me he loves his Cirrus.
All a matter of opinion I guess.
Have done just on 200hrs in an SR22 over the last 12 months, so some personal impressions.
Hard seats, nowhere to hide from the sun on a hot day, very loud in the cabin (absolutely, positively don't forget your headset), relatively easy to fly and land once you get used to the side stick controller (a gimmick courtesy of the marketing department at Cirrus), not as fast as some might suggest. Look for around 165 ktas running lean of peak. Rich of peak it runs along at around 172 ktas with a 5 usg/hr increase in the fuel flow.
The IO-550 installation in the Cirrus runs exceptionally smooth whilst running LOP. No lean of peak roughness whatsoever.
I have an overwhelming urge at times to pull the panic handle in the middle of the cabin ceiling, just to see what happens. After this feeling subsides, I gingerly replace the pin and cover, just in case something does in fact go bang.
Flew a brand new SR22 about six months ago and I have to say I was mightly impressed by the Garmin 1000 package and the digital autopilot. It flew the thing like it was on rails. Having said that, when the owner was flying the aircraft later in the day, he was that busy operating the system he torgot to look outside and sailed right on past Morrabbin!
The later Cirrus's are a definite step above the earlier machines and are nice machine to fly. Just don't take to close a look up under the panel or ahead of the firewall, otherwise you might notice all of those cheap fittings and connections that Cirrus has a tendency to use.
Hard seats, nowhere to hide from the sun on a hot day, very loud in the cabin (absolutely, positively don't forget your headset), relatively easy to fly and land once you get used to the side stick controller (a gimmick courtesy of the marketing department at Cirrus), not as fast as some might suggest. Look for around 165 ktas running lean of peak. Rich of peak it runs along at around 172 ktas with a 5 usg/hr increase in the fuel flow.
The IO-550 installation in the Cirrus runs exceptionally smooth whilst running LOP. No lean of peak roughness whatsoever.
I have an overwhelming urge at times to pull the panic handle in the middle of the cabin ceiling, just to see what happens. After this feeling subsides, I gingerly replace the pin and cover, just in case something does in fact go bang.
Flew a brand new SR22 about six months ago and I have to say I was mightly impressed by the Garmin 1000 package and the digital autopilot. It flew the thing like it was on rails. Having said that, when the owner was flying the aircraft later in the day, he was that busy operating the system he torgot to look outside and sailed right on past Morrabbin!
The later Cirrus's are a definite step above the earlier machines and are nice machine to fly. Just don't take to close a look up under the panel or ahead of the firewall, otherwise you might notice all of those cheap fittings and connections that Cirrus has a tendency to use.
....bummer, wrong button on the iPhone.
Having said all of that, give me the 29 year old 210 sitting here in the hangar. Probably one of the best things Cessna ever did. 100lbs lighter empty than the Cirrus, but flies out 600lbs heavier than the SR22. Just as quick with an hours more fuel on board and two extra seats way down the back. Load wise, they just can't be touched.
I would expect to still be flying the 210 in another 29 years, but I couldn't say the same thing about the Cirrus.
Having said all of that, give me the 29 year old 210 sitting here in the hangar. Probably one of the best things Cessna ever did. 100lbs lighter empty than the Cirrus, but flies out 600lbs heavier than the SR22. Just as quick with an hours more fuel on board and two extra seats way down the back. Load wise, they just can't be touched.
I would expect to still be flying the 210 in another 29 years, but I couldn't say the same thing about the Cirrus.
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He's been approved for $200k. I'd like to fly one just to see what they're like. The bean counters have told him to look at it in order to lower his tax so the rapid depreciation is not a big issue.
I've got to say the avionics and systems impress me. People say they're good so long as you like flying places on AP but seriously, there is an off button there somewhere.
Maintenence wise, do they have any expensive parts? I'm wondering if the auto CSU can cause another expense come maintenence time etc? I'm trying to steer him towards a SR22 for the extra speed. Price differences are there but for what he wants to use it for I thinks it's a better option. He is an industrial welder and works all over QLD. The idea is to get myself to buzz him around while learning then eventually take it himself.
Also what are some good Aussie web sites to look around on. I've been using controller.com but of course it's all US based stuff.
Rocket
I've got to say the avionics and systems impress me. People say they're good so long as you like flying places on AP but seriously, there is an off button there somewhere.
Maintenence wise, do they have any expensive parts? I'm wondering if the auto CSU can cause another expense come maintenence time etc? I'm trying to steer him towards a SR22 for the extra speed. Price differences are there but for what he wants to use it for I thinks it's a better option. He is an industrial welder and works all over QLD. The idea is to get myself to buzz him around while learning then eventually take it himself.
Also what are some good Aussie web sites to look around on. I've been using controller.com but of course it's all US based stuff.
Rocket
I've got about 100 hours in a SR22, great to fly.... when they are out of the hangar! Too many sensors on the engine that tend to break very soon after maintenance, plus the spare parts are not cheap. There is a "Master" control box (computer?) FWD of the firewall that also constantly has issues.
Love to fly them but sure glad I dont own one!!
Love to fly them but sure glad I dont own one!!
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Rocket66:
Have a talk to some owners. Have a talk to a couple of service centres that maintain Cirrus Aircraft. Also, go for a flight in a Cirrus yourself. The above owners or the dealer would be happy to take you for a flight.
My guess is there must be a reason why the Cirrus SR20/SR22 series has been the best selling 4 seat aircraft for many years.
IF the C182 or A36 were seriously better, the sales figures would reflect that.
2010 Deliveries:
Mooney: 2
Cessna Corvalis series: 8
A36 series: 22
DA40 series: 57
Cessna C182 series: 100
Cirrus SR20/SR22 series: 264
Have a talk to some owners. Have a talk to a couple of service centres that maintain Cirrus Aircraft. Also, go for a flight in a Cirrus yourself. The above owners or the dealer would be happy to take you for a flight.
My guess is there must be a reason why the Cirrus SR20/SR22 series has been the best selling 4 seat aircraft for many years.
IF the C182 or A36 were seriously better, the sales figures would reflect that.
2010 Deliveries:
Mooney: 2
Cessna Corvalis series: 8
A36 series: 22
DA40 series: 57
Cessna C182 series: 100
Cirrus SR20/SR22 series: 264
My guess is there must be a reason why the Cirrus SR20/SR22 series has been the best selling 4 seat aircraft for many years.
Dr
Tax deductible deprecation doesnt work - you are still losing money if a Cirrus goes down $50,000 more than a metal plane.
My money would go on a nice 182. Will fly anywhere in Australia in huge comfort still be a better investment than any Cirrus
I would be looking for this sort of thing if he only has $200k
2005 CESSNA 182T SKYLANE Piston Single Aircraft For Sale At Controller.com
My money would go on a nice 182. Will fly anywhere in Australia in huge comfort still be a better investment than any Cirrus
I would be looking for this sort of thing if he only has $200k
2005 CESSNA 182T SKYLANE Piston Single Aircraft For Sale At Controller.com
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I like the Cirrus, the way it flies, it's performance and it's modernness.
Word of advice if buying a new one - Always get references before buying an aircraft from an aircraft importer. PM for further info if required on that one.
You MUST hangar it or have a suitable cover on it. The plastic interior does not go well in the outdoors over a long period. The dash will fall apart and the whole thing will start to look very un-tidy by 1,000 hours.
Apart from that, fun to fly, easy to fly and if you like to pretend you are flying an airliner, then it's great for what you want. The geek's trick is to try and come as close as you can to landing it without touching the controls.
Con's:
If you don't manage the engine properly with fuel, you'll be up for a lot of cash in a very short space of time. Don't trust the engine management figures on the screens; you are better off going by fuel flow for safety.
Doesn't stand up well to punishment and a harsh sun. Plastics buckle and windows go cloudy.
Dash top can't handle being pulled out for servicing, by 1,000+ hours it will barely be hanging on.
Seats don't stand up to large passengers, the bottom falls out of them.
The leather inserts in the seats don't appear to be proper leather.
Desperately needs a rudder trim and doesn't have one.
Door handles on the older models are a p-rick and won't last (the newer push-button ones are better).
Centre console hinges are crap.
The SR20 has bugger-all payload - may as well buy a Jabiru. Pretty much can't practically put 4 people in it.
People keep touching and scratching the Avidyne nav screens. Not really a con but might be annoying if you're buying second hand. They are NOT touchscreen's people!!!
Can be a bit tricky for first-timers as you can't flare it or you'll hit the tail on the ground.
Models frequently change. A turbo normalised version came out, next thing a full turbo is released and many current owners were p-i-s-s-e-d.
The SR22 is a thirsty bugger.
Pro's -
TAS in the SR20 around 143-148 up top. Fuel burn about 11.2gph.
TAS in the SR22 as stated in earlier post.
Nice to fly, a little heavy in the controls at low speed, but otherwise good.
Autopilot is easy to use and virtually flies itself (need some manual rudder - refer to comments above on rudder trim).
Great for 195 knot beatups of your local airfield (SR20 or 22)
SR22 has power to burn, high climb rate and short takeoff ~400 metres asl.
Fun to fly and not complex to learn it - lands very flat, no flare required.
Word of advice if buying a new one - Always get references before buying an aircraft from an aircraft importer. PM for further info if required on that one.
You MUST hangar it or have a suitable cover on it. The plastic interior does not go well in the outdoors over a long period. The dash will fall apart and the whole thing will start to look very un-tidy by 1,000 hours.
Apart from that, fun to fly, easy to fly and if you like to pretend you are flying an airliner, then it's great for what you want. The geek's trick is to try and come as close as you can to landing it without touching the controls.
Con's:
If you don't manage the engine properly with fuel, you'll be up for a lot of cash in a very short space of time. Don't trust the engine management figures on the screens; you are better off going by fuel flow for safety.
Doesn't stand up well to punishment and a harsh sun. Plastics buckle and windows go cloudy.
Dash top can't handle being pulled out for servicing, by 1,000+ hours it will barely be hanging on.
Seats don't stand up to large passengers, the bottom falls out of them.
The leather inserts in the seats don't appear to be proper leather.
Desperately needs a rudder trim and doesn't have one.
Door handles on the older models are a p-rick and won't last (the newer push-button ones are better).
Centre console hinges are crap.
The SR20 has bugger-all payload - may as well buy a Jabiru. Pretty much can't practically put 4 people in it.
People keep touching and scratching the Avidyne nav screens. Not really a con but might be annoying if you're buying second hand. They are NOT touchscreen's people!!!
Can be a bit tricky for first-timers as you can't flare it or you'll hit the tail on the ground.
Models frequently change. A turbo normalised version came out, next thing a full turbo is released and many current owners were p-i-s-s-e-d.
The SR22 is a thirsty bugger.
Pro's -
TAS in the SR20 around 143-148 up top. Fuel burn about 11.2gph.
TAS in the SR22 as stated in earlier post.
Nice to fly, a little heavy in the controls at low speed, but otherwise good.
Autopilot is easy to use and virtually flies itself (need some manual rudder - refer to comments above on rudder trim).
Great for 195 knot beatups of your local airfield (SR20 or 22)
SR22 has power to burn, high climb rate and short takeoff ~400 metres asl.
Fun to fly and not complex to learn it - lands very flat, no flare required.
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Lads thanks for all the info, it will most certianly be hanagred. I'll go and fly one and see what they're like. As I mentioned it will be flying all over SE QLD so the extra payload and speed of the 22 would be of benefit.
Rocket
Rocket
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Ok lads, test flying an SR20 on Saturday week. I'll see how it goes however I'm still keen on the SR22 figures more so than the 20.
Does anyone have any info on shipping one in from the US. Like I mentioned earlier, never looked at shipping one in so I'm not really sure where to start.
Thanks,
Rocket
Does anyone have any info on shipping one in from the US. Like I mentioned earlier, never looked at shipping one in so I'm not really sure where to start.
Thanks,
Rocket