Cirrus SR20/22
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Be aware if you are looking at an older model Cirrus that the wings aren't removable and they MUST be flown over unless you're looking at deck freight and that sounds like a logistical nightmare.
Stretching my memory a little however I "think" some of the early Avidyne models had the one-piece wing but not for long.
I wouldn't so much concentrate on how it flies on your test flight, but rather the cost of running, ownership, maintenance issues, known Cirrus issues, insurance, hangarage, payload, fuel burn and other items that will affect your decision.
Don't let the glitz and glamour of an electronic panel glaze your eyes and affect your decision based on what is essentially cosmetics. You can pretty much fit a glass panel in anything these days so don't get sucked in.
I agree with you on the numbers for the 22. A far superior aircraft in terms of speed, performance and payload, BUT you're in different territory with increased fuel burn and running costs, not to mention that you can buy a similar performing 6 seater for less.
That is a good article posted above:
Table starting with asking price of US$299k.
Purchase price US$275k. USD 96cents for a 2006 model with 490hrs and air con.
At $275k (AUD$286k) Total cost at home registered and ready to fly $376,850, approximately $100,000 more than it cost!
AUD$
Purchase $286,500
Ferry trip $23,000
C of A $12,000
Training $4,000
US/Oz agents $2,000
Accessories $5,000
Insurance $14,350
GST $30,000
TOTAL $376,850
Stretching my memory a little however I "think" some of the early Avidyne models had the one-piece wing but not for long.
I wouldn't so much concentrate on how it flies on your test flight, but rather the cost of running, ownership, maintenance issues, known Cirrus issues, insurance, hangarage, payload, fuel burn and other items that will affect your decision.
Don't let the glitz and glamour of an electronic panel glaze your eyes and affect your decision based on what is essentially cosmetics. You can pretty much fit a glass panel in anything these days so don't get sucked in.
I agree with you on the numbers for the 22. A far superior aircraft in terms of speed, performance and payload, BUT you're in different territory with increased fuel burn and running costs, not to mention that you can buy a similar performing 6 seater for less.
That is a good article posted above:
Table starting with asking price of US$299k.
Purchase price US$275k. USD 96cents for a 2006 model with 490hrs and air con.
At $275k (AUD$286k) Total cost at home registered and ready to fly $376,850, approximately $100,000 more than it cost!
AUD$
Purchase $286,500
Ferry trip $23,000
C of A $12,000
Training $4,000
US/Oz agents $2,000
Accessories $5,000
Insurance $14,350
GST $30,000
TOTAL $376,850
Last edited by VH-XXX; 26th Aug 2011 at 03:56.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: location loaction
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep thought that importing would be pricey. The aircraft is for a friend of mine whom is yet to be licensed. The plan is he'll do his training while I can buzz him around in it until he's up to standard.
Pricewise 200k is the limit. It's was his decision to go with cirrus. I'm not too phased by the technology in them alought in saying that I can't wait to have a play.
Our biggest problem/worry is maintenece costs. Parts I'm told are reasonably cheap, but the question is how often do they require replacement parts? It's a bit of a wide question I know but I'm a pruner will know.
Next on the list is insurance. Who insures aircraft and what premiums can we expect?
Thanks for the info lads it's super helpful at the moment.
Rocket
Pricewise 200k is the limit. It's was his decision to go with cirrus. I'm not too phased by the technology in them alought in saying that I can't wait to have a play.
Our biggest problem/worry is maintenece costs. Parts I'm told are reasonably cheap, but the question is how often do they require replacement parts? It's a bit of a wide question I know but I'm a pruner will know.
Next on the list is insurance. Who insures aircraft and what premiums can we expect?
Thanks for the info lads it's super helpful at the moment.
Rocket
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm told many times over that that argument doesnt stand up. Have come across a few places using them online for abintio, with the only main issue being the extra costs. Aside from being heavy on the controls at low speeds they are not a complex aircraft to fly. The student doesn't know any different so the higher speed won't put him off.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: location loaction
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah was thinking about that. I don't have any instructional experience so I'm not sure. I suggested he start in a 172 and go from there. There's a lot more GA aircraft around with the usual control coloumn than the sidestick, unless ofcourse we make it to a personal f16.
Trying to steer him towards the basics of keeping the thing onthe air then perhaps use it for his navs. Than again with the technology inboard in the cirrus, the 172 might be better in that regard too.
Rocket
Trying to steer him towards the basics of keeping the thing onthe air then perhaps use it for his navs. Than again with the technology inboard in the cirrus, the 172 might be better in that regard too.
Rocket
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heard that one bloke who traded in his older Cirrus for the latest all singing all dancing model has been paying on average $12,000 for each 100 hrly. YIKES!!! Makes C210 100hrlys look like a small change deal.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maun, Botswana
Age: 37
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If speed is what you are concerned about, get a C210 and do the Bonair conversion on it which bores the engine out from 520 to 550.
You easily start cruising up around the yellow arc.
Engine handling becomes a bit of an issue though due to the weaker cyclinders.
You easily start cruising up around the yellow arc.
Engine handling becomes a bit of an issue though due to the weaker cyclinders.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Liflyboy 262
Where did you get the idea an io550 is a bored out io520 ? You would have to bore it out 152 thou. approx 10 times normal max oversize. Piston inspection would be easy though-you should be able to see it through the cylinder wall. Seriously now an io550 is a different engine and as stated does wonders for a C210's performance. The "P" model io550 is very good with it's over the top balanced induction air intakes. High CHT's are not an issue as it can run smoothly LOP just about as far as you want to go.You simply choose a nice compromise between temps and speed.
Cheers RA
Where did you get the idea an io550 is a bored out io520 ? You would have to bore it out 152 thou. approx 10 times normal max oversize. Piston inspection would be easy though-you should be able to see it through the cylinder wall. Seriously now an io550 is a different engine and as stated does wonders for a C210's performance. The "P" model io550 is very good with it's over the top balanced induction air intakes. High CHT's are not an issue as it can run smoothly LOP just about as far as you want to go.You simply choose a nice compromise between temps and speed.
Cheers RA
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about other modern craft?
Looks like I might be in the same boat as the original poster's friend soon.
So lots of negatives on durability and cost of maintenance of a Cirrus here.
What about other more modern 4-seater aircraft? I guess there are not that many; Cessna Corvalis, Diamond DA40, what else?
Tried the latter on for size at Oshkosh. Bit squeezier than the SR-20, but other than that seems fine. I like the back door and visibility. Any comment?
I am just so not a C172/182 kinda guy...
RV-10 seems like a very good option too, though harder to buy second hand?
So lots of negatives on durability and cost of maintenance of a Cirrus here.
What about other more modern 4-seater aircraft? I guess there are not that many; Cessna Corvalis, Diamond DA40, what else?
Tried the latter on for size at Oshkosh. Bit squeezier than the SR-20, but other than that seems fine. I like the back door and visibility. Any comment?
I am just so not a C172/182 kinda guy...
RV-10 seems like a very good option too, though harder to buy second hand?
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Under the Equator
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little Research.....
Baswell:
I suggest you might get a more accurate account of Corvalis, Cirrus and Diamond aircraft from some ACTUAL aircraft owners of the above types.
I suggest you also chat to some ACTUAL service centres of the above aircraft. The LAMEs will give you an accurate idea of the real costs and schedule of critical maintenance costs.
Pros and cons for all types;
There are not enough Corvalis types around in this Country for comparison and the sales figures have been dismal.
A Diamond with close to 2000 hours TT will be quite an expensive purchase!.
As is a Cirrus that is 9 years old and 11 months!.
However, such aircraft are usually priced with this already allowed for. - But, buyer beware....
Had a chat to the Cirrus Service Centre at YMMB. No current Cirrus Authorised Service Centre has EVER charged $12,000 for a 100 hour Inspection. Good Guy. Look him up and have a chat about all things Cirrus. He won't hold back and sugar coat.
Good Luck and have fun with your future aircraft.....whatever it is.
I suggest you might get a more accurate account of Corvalis, Cirrus and Diamond aircraft from some ACTUAL aircraft owners of the above types.
I suggest you also chat to some ACTUAL service centres of the above aircraft. The LAMEs will give you an accurate idea of the real costs and schedule of critical maintenance costs.
Pros and cons for all types;
There are not enough Corvalis types around in this Country for comparison and the sales figures have been dismal.
A Diamond with close to 2000 hours TT will be quite an expensive purchase!.
As is a Cirrus that is 9 years old and 11 months!.
However, such aircraft are usually priced with this already allowed for. - But, buyer beware....
Had a chat to the Cirrus Service Centre at YMMB. No current Cirrus Authorised Service Centre has EVER charged $12,000 for a 100 hour Inspection. Good Guy. Look him up and have a chat about all things Cirrus. He won't hold back and sugar coat.
Good Luck and have fun with your future aircraft.....whatever it is.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: location loaction
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RFG
I struggle to see how a parachut repack could cost $12k also. The dealer we have been dealing with has actually advised us that aircraft nearing the 10 year old mark will require the repack and he also says allow 12k for it.
The comments on here have been great, it looks like we'll be looking at 7 or 8 year old models so once purchased that will be allowed for.
In a previous comment I read that to allow for maintenence/fuel/insurance etc to multiply the fuel cost per litre by 3. The cost is than approx 3X the fuel burn per hour of flying. Has anyone used a formula like this before and does it work??
Rocket
I struggle to see how a parachut repack could cost $12k also. The dealer we have been dealing with has actually advised us that aircraft nearing the 10 year old mark will require the repack and he also says allow 12k for it.
The comments on here have been great, it looks like we'll be looking at 7 or 8 year old models so once purchased that will be allowed for.
In a previous comment I read that to allow for maintenence/fuel/insurance etc to multiply the fuel cost per litre by 3. The cost is than approx 3X the fuel burn per hour of flying. Has anyone used a formula like this before and does it work??
Rocket
Rocket & Baswell,
Can I respectfully suggest perhaps looking at joining one of the owner groups online - most of which are able to provide heaps of pre-purchase advice which will more than pay for the initial membership outlay?
Just like Cessna, Beech & Mooney pilots associations, a quick google search reveals Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association
Can I respectfully suggest perhaps looking at joining one of the owner groups online - most of which are able to provide heaps of pre-purchase advice which will more than pay for the initial membership outlay?
Just like Cessna, Beech & Mooney pilots associations, a quick google search reveals Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Under the Equator
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rocket 66;
I'm not sure of the full details of the repack. However, I understand it includes a new chute, a new rocket, panels etc. Apparently the old chute goes back to the USA (repack or destruction?).
The Melbourne Service centre (Blue Demon) also told me there is a dangerous goods shipping cost included (huge dollars!) and a government imposed DG disposal levy on the old rocket.
Again, the very best advice on service would be from the Factory Trained LAMEs: Mark in Melbourne and Andy in Brisbane.
You are welcome to PM me for their numbers if you like. I have found both guys open and honest.
Have fun in whatever you buy.
If you end up choosing a Cirrus, I suggest you also get one of the above guys to have a look at the aircraft first rather than a LAME that has no experience with the type (Before the guns come out - I'm not suggesting other LAMEs are negligent...).
I'm not sure of the full details of the repack. However, I understand it includes a new chute, a new rocket, panels etc. Apparently the old chute goes back to the USA (repack or destruction?).
The Melbourne Service centre (Blue Demon) also told me there is a dangerous goods shipping cost included (huge dollars!) and a government imposed DG disposal levy on the old rocket.
Again, the very best advice on service would be from the Factory Trained LAMEs: Mark in Melbourne and Andy in Brisbane.
You are welcome to PM me for their numbers if you like. I have found both guys open and honest.
Have fun in whatever you buy.
If you end up choosing a Cirrus, I suggest you also get one of the above guys to have a look at the aircraft first rather than a LAME that has no experience with the type (Before the guns come out - I'm not suggesting other LAMEs are negligent...).
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are plenty of other LAME's out there servicing Cirrus aircraft, for example The Aviation Centre at Tyabb.
It is a composite aircraft with a Continental engine, CS Prop and an Avidyne or Gamin display, nothing complex there. As long as your LAME can work on composites and at least it's not carbon so no extra cost surprises there. The only benefit of the Cirrus authorised centres apart from tearing you a new one, would be warranty work and that won't apply in this instance.
It is a composite aircraft with a Continental engine, CS Prop and an Avidyne or Gamin display, nothing complex there. As long as your LAME can work on composites and at least it's not carbon so no extra cost surprises there. The only benefit of the Cirrus authorised centres apart from tearing you a new one, would be warranty work and that won't apply in this instance.
The Melbourne Service centre (Blue Demon) also told me there is a dangerous goods shipping cost included (huge dollars!) and a government imposed DG disposal levy on the old rocket.
