Round Engine V Turbine :)
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Round Engine V Turbine :)
DEDICATED TO ALL THOSE WHO
FLEW BEHIND ROUND ENGINES
We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're ruining aviation and
our hearing...
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery.
The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up
any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat.
Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a
switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move
it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You
have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a horny mistress.
On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it...
Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof
and start whining a little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG,
more rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks,
a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that.
It's a GUY thing...
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead Starting a turbine is like flicking on
a ceiling fan: Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew
Chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too!
Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to
aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine
at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This
helps concentrate the mind !
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps.
Round engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Dog
FLEW BEHIND ROUND ENGINES
We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're ruining aviation and
our hearing...
A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery.
The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up
any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat.
Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a
switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move
it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start.
Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You
have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a horny mistress.
On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it...
Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof
and start whining a little louder.
Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG,
more rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks,
a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that.
It's a GUY thing...
When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can
concentrate on the flight ahead Starting a turbine is like flicking on
a ceiling fan: Useful, but, hardly exciting.
When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew
Chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too!
Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to
aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine
at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This
helps concentrate the mind !
Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's
attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights.
Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps.
Round engines smell like God intended machines to smell.
Dog
Hey 'Dog' a turbine is a round engine actually & not all turbines have the air going straight thru them either:-)
Starting a 'round' eng as you say ( as in radial donk) might be fun but that ain't important as much as when it stops in flight, quite a common occurrence for yr 'round engines'!
Wmk2
Starting a 'round' eng as you say ( as in radial donk) might be fun but that ain't important as much as when it stops in flight, quite a common occurrence for yr 'round engines'!
Wmk2
C'mon guys,
Dogimed has aroused in me a little of the nostalgia of times gone by.
As SLF in a DC6B back in the lounge at night, listening to the muted rumble of four P&W R2800, seeing the red glow of the exhaust ring and the small blue flame off the end of each stack is as good as it gets, not forgetting the unique smell of those old airliners.
These airliners were truly the carriages of ladies and ladies and gentlemen of days gone by.
For the engineers they were labour intensive, dirty and yet satisfying that you managed to find the elusive mag drop etc.
Fast forward to turbines and they are now the carriage of bogans.
In between there were the turbo-prop. The Darts were a challenge to rig properly but properly done were a joy. If Mr RR said that one flat on an adjustment will give you 15 RPM it did indeed. Starting them also allowed no short cuts as they can easily cooked.
The PT6, especially in a Twotter, needed to be rigged precicely to have the throttles both together in fwd and reverse, but was able to suffer a lot of abuse before failure.
The modern turbo prop and high bypass fans are computer controlled and take away all the uncertainties of their operation and therefore do not have the character, or qwirks of the old round engines.
I suggest neither the modern young pilot or engineer, even if they were taught and shown the basics, would be able to satisfactorally operate a round engine today and, barring a mechanical failure, have it go to a satisfactory TBO unlike those of old.
Oh dear! I am showing my age...
Propstop (Old Fart)
Dogimed has aroused in me a little of the nostalgia of times gone by.
As SLF in a DC6B back in the lounge at night, listening to the muted rumble of four P&W R2800, seeing the red glow of the exhaust ring and the small blue flame off the end of each stack is as good as it gets, not forgetting the unique smell of those old airliners.
These airliners were truly the carriages of ladies and ladies and gentlemen of days gone by.
For the engineers they were labour intensive, dirty and yet satisfying that you managed to find the elusive mag drop etc.
Fast forward to turbines and they are now the carriage of bogans.
In between there were the turbo-prop. The Darts were a challenge to rig properly but properly done were a joy. If Mr RR said that one flat on an adjustment will give you 15 RPM it did indeed. Starting them also allowed no short cuts as they can easily cooked.
The PT6, especially in a Twotter, needed to be rigged precicely to have the throttles both together in fwd and reverse, but was able to suffer a lot of abuse before failure.
The modern turbo prop and high bypass fans are computer controlled and take away all the uncertainties of their operation and therefore do not have the character, or qwirks of the old round engines.
I suggest neither the modern young pilot or engineer, even if they were taught and shown the basics, would be able to satisfactorally operate a round engine today and, barring a mechanical failure, have it go to a satisfactory TBO unlike those of old.
Oh dear! I am showing my age...
Propstop (Old Fart)
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AND... after they were started and we logged all the readings an absolute minimum of three times per flight, we sat with maps on our laps to keep and eye on our track and know where we were... unless we were on the coast where we could listen for As or Ns and made sure we knew which direction blue and yellow indicated on the VAR.
Big maps covered with contact kept the leaks from wettin' ya daks so ya didn't have to keep ya raincoat buttoned up.
Heaven??? but I wouldna missed it for quids.
Big maps covered with contact kept the leaks from wettin' ya daks so ya didn't have to keep ya raincoat buttoned up.
Heaven??? but I wouldna missed it for quids.
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On Sunday give me a radial, Beaver would be good, fill it up with mates and trundle down the coast at 500' listening to the 985 purring along, or better still give me a Harvard so I can take the bar maid from the pub last night and tip her upside down.... Actually stuff my mates and the bar maid I'd be most happy with a Sea Fury...
However during the week after flying an AT 401 (p&w 1340) and a Dromander for a while, give me the turbines any day. Other than the reliability issues it was nice getting that extra hour of sleep. You can turn up to work at 5.30 am instead of 4.30 and still be airborne at day break...
Starting the day by pumping all that oil, then coaxing it into life, leave the tail tied down and go and have two or three cups of coffee while you wait for it to warm up
Maybe I'm getting soft....
However during the week after flying an AT 401 (p&w 1340) and a Dromander for a while, give me the turbines any day. Other than the reliability issues it was nice getting that extra hour of sleep. You can turn up to work at 5.30 am instead of 4.30 and still be airborne at day break...
Starting the day by pumping all that oil, then coaxing it into life, leave the tail tied down and go and have two or three cups of coffee while you wait for it to warm up
Maybe I'm getting soft....
I flew Bristol Freighters in the seventies and never felt safe with radials, too much going on with too many moving parts. 56 inches of MP/2800 rpm on take-off, 20 gallon oil tanks and using 3 gallons an hour per engine. 60 odd gears just to time the sleeves, scary, like sitting next to a bomb. Modern jet-engines are a wonderful invention.
'By George' you where brave there mate. I remember those old beasts at EN back in the late 70's when I was working as an A/C Mech. Those 3 gallons an hr they used was that whilst they where running or just sitting there bleeding oil like a stuck pig?
Pilots where a brave bunch way back then, the real "Right Stuff"
Wmk2
. I remember those old beasts at EN back in the late 70's when I was working as an A/C Mech. Those 3 gallons an hr they used was that whilst they where running or just sitting there bleeding oil like a stuck pig?Pilots where a brave bunch way back then, the real "Right Stuff"
Wmk2
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Bristol Freighters
Those Bristol Hercules were no less thirsty in the sixties either. Metal to metal joints sealed with buckets full of Hermatite sealant still leaked as much as they burnt. Still, they were pretty reliable but being sleeve valve engines they needed heaps of lubricant. After landing the chocks would be put in place and then large "catch cans" at the bottom of the MLG stuts to catch the oil draining from the engine nacelle. I recall one failing enroute RAAF Edinburgh to RAAF Laverton and punching a hole through the cowling but inflight shut-downs were a relatively rare event.
Turning DC3 engines over by hand to make sure the lower cylinder hadn't filled up with oil prior to starting. That rattle and belch of smoke as it kicked into life.
Always engineers doing something to them.
Oil everywere, couldn't keep a new shirt for more than a week without getting a stain on it.
The real days of flying
Always engineers doing something to them.
Oil everywere, couldn't keep a new shirt for more than a week without getting a stain on it.
The real days of flying
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fatboywings, what a beaut looking PT17.
I am definately a radial fan, the Vedeneyav M14-P is one of the greatest engines that ever there was. The sole radial powerplant remaining in production. They initially powered Yak and Sukhoi aerobatic aeroplanes but now can be found in a range of types.
The only experience I have of flying them is in the Yak 52, but what an engine.
Great videos posted btw, enjoyed the DC6 one particularly.
That is the only thing our S1 lacks, is the sound and character of a round engine. My ideal world would be a Pitts Model 12, the best aerobatic aeroplane that ever there was, with the best light aircraft engine, that ever there was. <----- very bias.
Dreams are free ya know.
I am definately a radial fan, the Vedeneyav M14-P is one of the greatest engines that ever there was. The sole radial powerplant remaining in production. They initially powered Yak and Sukhoi aerobatic aeroplanes but now can be found in a range of types.
The only experience I have of flying them is in the Yak 52, but what an engine.
Great videos posted btw, enjoyed the DC6 one particularly.
That is the only thing our S1 lacks, is the sound and character of a round engine. My ideal world would be a Pitts Model 12, the best aerobatic aeroplane that ever there was, with the best light aircraft engine, that ever there was. <----- very bias.
Dreams are free ya know.
Last edited by M14_P; 22nd Jul 2011 at 06:14.
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The sound of an 1820 at full song from the front seat is awesome, 2700 RPM 52.5 inches of go. I still have my hearing.
And 2 by 985 pratts just a glorious noise, an almost unbreakable engine.
Round Engines and water cooled engines won WW II
And 2 by 985 pratts just a glorious noise, an almost unbreakable engine.
Round Engines and water cooled engines won WW II
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Spent about 3500 hrs behind an R1340 Pratt and only ever had 2 failures. One was a runaway prop governor, the other a master rod failure on final approach to the paddock. Mixer wanted to know if I was going to come and get the load or sit there all day?!!! Loved the power in a short tail AT301. Would outturn anything once it got below about 250gals. Engine OH costs made the turbine decision for us, but you cant beat the prescence of a big radial.
BTW, Pretty sure Rotec are still building 7 and 9 cyl. radials in Oz.
Cheers, OA.
BTW, Pretty sure Rotec are still building 7 and 9 cyl. radials in Oz.
Cheers, OA.
