Is Ag. Flying considered a poor career choice?

[plucka]

while responding to another thread it was pointed out to me that the reason there was an Ag. pilot shortage is that no-one wants to do it.

Is this true?

The reason there is a shortage is that when the drought hit some pilots had to get work elsewhere and a few retired.
Now the drought has broken there are not enough of us left.

With the ever increasing worldwide demand for food I think Ag. is a pretty safe career choice.

So do you fresh CPL holders consider Ag. at all, or is it Instructor Ratings and MECIR's only?

[Basil]

Best consistent L1011 lander I've met was ex ag. and, I regret to have to admit, Australian
Never done it myself.
Re 'safe career choice', I get the impression that, if you don't pay attention all the time, it can be a short career choice

[VH-XXX]

You have to be prepared to move residence moderately frequently to chase the work. It's certainly not a 9-5 flying job. I know very good ag pilots not doing it long term because the lifestyle is not for them. Can be seasonal but on the other hand if you are into ag flying, then fire bombing is an option for you, but again, depends where you want to live.

You need a good attention span, if you stuff up, you will probably die.

[plucka]

I agree, but this forum is full of threads from people wonderering if they should move north looking for their first job that may pay 25k per year, so they obviously are happy to travel.

There is also plenty of people complaining about pay and conditions.
Ag. pays well right from your first job.

So I am wonderering if these people have thought about Ag.

I know of two new Ag. pilots who are both now flying turbines and will make well over 100k for their first year flying. Both of them have less than 400hrs total time.
Yes it can be dangerous and it is not for everyone, but you would have to agree, this is a much better return on your investment than the alternatives...

[glekichi]

I was quite interested in going to ag flying but every time I bumped into an ag pilot anywhere they all told me that there was no work and that you needed a LOT more experience then what I had, which was around 800hrs at the time.

I certainly never, ever heard of an ag company looking for a pilot that is not previously ag experienced.

Now a mate of mine that runs an ag outfit tells me experienced guys are making $20k+ a month doing contract work and that they just can't find enough guys.

[arnellis]

$20k in aud a month?? Where do I sign??

[plucka]

Hey Glekichi,

At the Australian conference a couple of weeks ago, finding new pilots was a fairly hot topic. This is why I want to know if people even consider this career path.
I wonder if Ag is even mentioned as a career in the flying schools/clubs these days?

Times have sure changed since you showed some interest in the industry.

[Checkboard]

So do you fresh CPL holders consider Ag. at all, or is it Instructor Ratings and MECIR's only?

My CPL days are 20 years ago now, however I was always told, anecdotally, that Ag required a heap of hours, and you would probably spend your first year as ground crew preparing chemical loads and refuelling the aircraft from drums at the local strip as "preparation"...

Can a brand new CPL reasonably expect to be accepted into an Ag job with 250 hours total?

Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia

[Dreamflyer1000]

Im interested to see where this thread goes. I am a fresh (ish) CPL with 350hrs total, and want to go ag. Its the only place I want to go.. So I would be interested to hear from anybody who has gone down the road with a fresh licence, and what is to be expected in that area. then, and now. Because they are so short of pilots (so people are saying), does that mean less time mixing/fueling, more chance being picked up and trained with low hours?

People who have gone into the industry, did you do your Ag Rating BEFORE looking for work, or after you secured a job (or job promise)?

[plucka]

Hey Checkboard,

Yep, people are getting their first Ag. flying job with 250hrs total time. Generally in a piston, Agwagon, Pawnee etc but alot of them are in a turbine within a year.
12 Months mixing/ground work is still a good idea.

My advice to a CPL holder that was thinking about Ag, would be to get a mixing job, and there is plenty around, to see how the industry works.
If they are still keen after that, then go and do your Ag rating. Will cost between 15 and 20k.
If they are any good they will soon have a job.

[Dreamflyer1000]

what are the dollars and cents like mixing? Reason I ask, is if its poor, I should hang around what I'm doing at the moment, and make some 'push me through' money before I go slog again...
If anybody knows..

[plucka]

Dreamflyer,

I started Ag flying in 1999 with 250hrs TT. Back then you had to do 1000hrs in a piston before anyone would give you a job in a turbine,
Times have changed.

If you want to be an Ag pilot go mixing now. You should be able to save the money for your rating within six months. After that you should be set.
Not many operators will pay for your Ag rating although I have heard of many tax free deals and assistance given to those that would commit to their employer.

The best place to find a job is from within the industry.

Good luck.

[plucka]

common mixing rates, $25/hr with some long hours over the season.

Or some pay weekly retainer between $600 and $800 a week plus a percentage of the aeroplane your mixing for. 2-3% is common. which means about an extra $20/hr, flight time only.

Feel free to p.m. if you need some more info.

[multime]

After The Drought

We are experiencing the boom times again in Australia. This is how it should be. I was loading 3 - 502,s a night in my early days on $2000 plus a week then the drought and reality hit. I was back in NT flying charter for a meager $430 after tax.! C****air !
I was prepared this time around.
Lifes good. Boom and bust. Noodles versus T Bones.
If you can get your hands dirty, mechanical, work hard, really hard, have a Stickability instinct and never give up, even i will admitt the rewards are worth the pain.
At present your committment will pay off.
Wheres HarleyD.? World of wisdom.
Goodluck
M

[185skywagon]

Good to hear things are lining up for you, multime. It's been a long time eh.
185.

[lilflyboy262]

I dont know what it is like across the ditch, but when I was doing my training, all the ag pilots were frowned upon.
They were the "Cowboy Kamikaze pilots, of which no airline in their right mind would want to hire." Obviously these are not my own thoughts, but those of the people who trained me to fly.
I watched these guys in awe as they would come down and hit that same spot on the runway time and time again no matter the conditions.

I don't know whether it was like this the length of the country, but it could be a pretty big pointer as to why none of these guys will go anywhere near a ag plane, and instead spend 3 months pulling beers in the hope of that first gig.

[plucka]

I was worried this may be the response. In years gone bye it would of been a pretty fair view of the industry.
However we have worked hard to change this perception and now the majority of the industry is full of well trained professionals.
This is how we would like to be viewed anyway, but I believe we still have some work to do to convince the rest of the aviation world.

[solowflyer]

It has been a long haul over the last few years but ag is now in boom mode hopefully for a long while more. You can make allot of money very quickly but job security is always lingering in the back of your mind. Rain is what keeps an ag pilot in a job, as long as it keeps raining there will always be an job there for the taking however as soon as the rain stops so does the work.

The pilots making the big coin are contract pilots, once the work is finished they are on the look out for the next job usually in a different part of the country or even over seas. there are operators that have full time positions pilots. Although they may not make as much as a contract pilot this is offset by having secure job with regular work and being able to be home every night.

It is not a lifestyle for everyone often living out of suitcase chasing the work in rural areas. I have seen many people come and go over the years as they cant handle the lifestyle. All I can suggest is if you are interested check out AAAA web site or fieldair's web site, get in touch with some operators and have a go at loading and see if you like it or not before committing to a rating. As for earning money loading it can be very good especially if loading 2 or 3 turbines it is possible to earn close to or more than what the pilots earn plus meals and accommodation are usually supplied.

There has never been a better time to enter the industry than now.

[Metro man]

It depends what you want to do for your career, much better to be a happy ag pilot than a miserable airline pilot.

Be careful though of thinking you can use ag flying as a stepping stone to build hours and make some money before moving on up the ladder. Once you're in it can be difficult to get out as the skills are very different to passenger operations, low level VFR single pilot versus instrument flying multi crew CRM and SOPs.

I knew a couple of ag pilots who are now left seat on wide bodys with major airlines but they are very much the exception.

[mattyj]

I would've here in NZ but it takes too long as a loader driver to get a start..and it costs waaay too much!!...still my other options haven't worked out that great either