Light aircraft down at Moree.
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Via the ATSB report -
The aircraft was fitted with two Garmin 128 marine-type GPS units that provided aircraft tracking and groundspeed information...
...The absence of recorded tracking data in the last minutes of flight was consistent with previously-recorded approaches, including to Brewarrina Airport that day. Ground testing of the GPS unit could only replicate this phenomenon if the power supply to the GPS unit was turned off prior to reaching the destination.
It was therefore possible that, for a short time during the final approach segment, the pilot’s attention was diverted to the task of selecting the GPS unit OFF. The investigation could not establish the extent to which that selection, if made, might have affected the pilot’s ability to maintain a safe profile during the final approach segment for runway 19...
Why was the pilot turning off the GPS ?
Apparently this is a garmin 128 (with three levels of back lighting) -
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Via the ATSB report -
The aircraft was fitted with two Garmin 128 marine-type GPS units that provided aircraft tracking and groundspeed information...
...The absence of recorded tracking data in the last minutes of flight was consistent with previously-recorded approaches, including to Brewarrina Airport that day. Ground testing of the GPS unit could only replicate this phenomenon if the power supply to the GPS unit was turned off prior to reaching the destination.
It was therefore possible that, for a short time during the final approach segment, the pilot’s attention was diverted to the task of selecting the GPS unit OFF. The investigation could not establish the extent to which that selection, if made, might have affected the pilot’s ability to maintain a safe profile during the final approach segment for runway 19...
Why was the pilot turning off the GPS ?
Apparently this is a garmin 128 (with three levels of back lighting) -
.
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Current & competent
To Jack Ranga and T28D. I would have thought that being competent was also implicit in my reference to being current. To me they go 'hand in glove'. Nonetheless, I fully agree with your comment.
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"...The aircraft was fitted with two Garmin 128 marine-type GPS units that provided aircraft tracking and groundspeed information..."
... the aircraft had two GPS units and yet the report mentions the "pilot’s attention was diverted to the task of selecting the GPS unit OFF"
A miss-print perhaps? Methinks if the pilot were actually turning both units off he would be a fairly distracted chap - not what you want on short final at night.
Running this by an experienced instructer the question was asked where were these boating GPS's mounted ? - No idea as theres no picture or schematic of the aircraft panel layout.
Thinkin about it, due to the full avionics fitout posibly limiting space mid panel there is a posibility that one GPS were mounted on the control colum with the other top of the dash of perhaps right side panel. If this were the case then the pilot would need to look down to aquire the off button on the possibly well lite (temperally affecting night vision) colum mounted GPS. I'm thinking that to look down at a control colum and press a button would probably induce a slight increase in descent profile. Then to look right side panel...
All this is conjecture on my part as the factual report notes - "...The investigation could not establish the extent to which that selection, if made..."
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"...The aircraft was fitted with two Garmin 128 marine-type GPS units that provided aircraft tracking and groundspeed information..."
... the aircraft had two GPS units and yet the report mentions the "pilot’s attention was diverted to the task of selecting the GPS unit OFF"A miss-print perhaps? Methinks if the pilot were actually turning both units off he would be a fairly distracted chap - not what you want on short final at night.
Running this by an experienced instructer the question was asked where were these boating GPS's mounted ? - No idea as theres no picture or schematic of the aircraft panel layout.
Thinkin about it, due to the full avionics fitout posibly limiting space mid panel there is a posibility that one GPS were mounted on the control colum with the other top of the dash of perhaps right side panel. If this were the case then the pilot would need to look down to aquire the off button on the possibly well lite (temperally affecting night vision) colum mounted GPS. I'm thinking that to look down at a control colum and press a button would probably induce a slight increase in descent profile. Then to look right side panel...
All this is conjecture on my part as the factual report notes - "...The investigation could not establish the extent to which that selection, if made..."
.
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There are two things here I don't get:
a) why on Earth would you want to switch your GPS off on final approach? Beats me....
b) the report states 'C of G probably out of limits'. Why 'probably'? With two survivors it must be possible to determine who sat where, the weights of then pax should be known with reasonable accuracy and and fuel quantity also. Unless, of course, they did the calculations (as I'm sure the ATSB would) and found that it was either just outside or just within limits.
Anyway, sad event.
a) why on Earth would you want to switch your GPS off on final approach? Beats me....
b) the report states 'C of G probably out of limits'. Why 'probably'? With two survivors it must be possible to determine who sat where, the weights of then pax should be known with reasonable accuracy and and fuel quantity also. Unless, of course, they did the calculations (as I'm sure the ATSB would) and found that it was either just outside or just within limits.
Anyway, sad event.
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I admit to not having read the whole report, but this sentence rings a couple of bells.
Does it suggest that turning off the tracking data on final was 'routine' ?. If we accept for the sake of the discussion that it does, then it merits some consideration.
If it was routine, then would turning it off be that 'big' a distraction ?.
Do we know if the 'dimmer' function working properly ?, one bright light can be distracting and disorientating, especially when tired on the last approach in the dark.
Do we know if the unit was an 'air switch' (Tacho/VDO) type of recorder used for maintenance time (time in service)?.
Not saying primary cause here, just wondering about contributory factors and eliminating possibilities.
Can anyone who has used this particular GPS unit shed some light?.
"The absence of recorded tracking data in the last minutes of flight was consistent with previously-recorded approaches, including to Brewarrina Airport that day".
If it was routine, then would turning it off be that 'big' a distraction ?.
Do we know if the 'dimmer' function working properly ?, one bright light can be distracting and disorientating, especially when tired on the last approach in the dark.
Do we know if the unit was an 'air switch' (Tacho/VDO) type of recorder used for maintenance time (time in service)?.
Not saying primary cause here, just wondering about contributory factors and eliminating possibilities.
Can anyone who has used this particular GPS unit shed some light?.
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Agreed the two reasons I can think for turning it off would be the issue of light, unless they were in a rush and he started shutting things off, GPS, radio, transponder etc; dumber things have happened before. After all, they had almost touched down. Or... They simply weren't needed. After all, they had arrived at their destination, so no need for a GPS any more.
Being Marine GPS units they may have been in a cigarette lighter power socket. It could have fallen out. So many explanations, all pathetically small, but when put together, lead to this kind of outcome.
Being Marine GPS units they may have been in a cigarette lighter power socket. It could have fallen out. So many explanations, all pathetically small, but when put together, lead to this kind of outcome.
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When I get around to filling in my logbook I use the GPS flight time and whatever extra per flight needed to match VDO time. This extra can be quite a bit.
Possibly they were using GPS flight time for 100 hourly's and switching off early to get even more in between maintenance.
Possibly they were using GPS flight time for 100 hourly's and switching off early to get even more in between maintenance.
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Some older GPS use the power button as light on/off and dimmer
Press and hold toggles light, short press shuts unit down - Magellans work this way unsure of Garmin
A G296 a quick press on power button brings up backlight controls?
Press and hold toggles light, short press shuts unit down - Magellans work this way unsure of Garmin
A G296 a quick press on power button brings up backlight controls?
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You are in a bit of a time warp there Kaz and I noticed that you have posted on another forum saying that a Saratoga crashed at Mooree last night killing 4 and injuring 2.
Better check the date on your PC me thinks!
This accident happened on 30th March, 2011.
Better check the date on your PC me thinks!
This accident happened on 30th March, 2011.
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A G296 a quick press on power button brings up backlight controls?
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Inconclusive:
Sorry guys to bang on, but the GPS part has caught my interest. Anyway for what it's worth :-There are no obvious explanations in the manual which answer why turn it off, especially on short final. I'd love to know where it was mounted, purely for interests sake.
The only information of any interest was on page 60 where there is a 'flashing' alert system which may have been distracting. (Messages/Time offsets page 60).
Altitude Field page 18.
Screen Backlighting Timer page 46.
Mounting the GPS page 53.
Power connection page 59.
Back to the drawing board for pet puzzles.
The only information of any interest was on page 60 where there is a 'flashing' alert system which may have been distracting. (Messages/Time offsets page 60).
Altitude Field page 18.
Screen Backlighting Timer page 46.
Mounting the GPS page 53.
Power connection page 59.
Back to the drawing board for pet puzzles.
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Wild guess.
Power cord went to a cigar socket somewhere in the cockpit that got in the way of flap or gear or whatever, and he just yanks the cable out of the way in the circuit.
Kills the unit due no battery, or serviceable battery, and he did not need it anyway.
At night this may have been desirable also.
Power cord went to a cigar socket somewhere in the cockpit that got in the way of flap or gear or whatever, and he just yanks the cable out of the way in the circuit.
Kills the unit due no battery, or serviceable battery, and he did not need it anyway.
At night this may have been desirable also.
