First time to fly a turbo . . . tips and tricks
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Originally Posted by Chimbu Chuckles
Since the Turbo has been cooling and spinning down for the last part of the descent, the circuit and approach/landing, the coolest it will be is on touchdown. Every minute you spend sitting at idle on the ramp is just heating it back up again - and your pax...
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Sounds logical but the owner of the aircraft wanted the three minute cool down. Would be interesting what to hear what Engineers think of it. Mettalurgists even better.
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Fair enough.
Perhaps another slightly relevant example... I have a twin-turbocharged car. She's quick, and I work her. When I get home, I simply turn her off, as would anyone with a normally aspirated car; no run-down, no idling, no bull****. I know when I hit the town limits that she's off the turbo's -all they're doing for the final drive home is spinning down and cooling. Perfect.
Now, a few years ago a young neighbour had a Godzilla, that from the time the engine fired in the morning was valve-bouncing up the road at the red-line. When he got home, it'd sit outside idling for anywhere between 15-30 minutes most nights.
One day he came to me when I was washing mine to enquire how many turbo's I'd gone through. Of course she was (and still is) on the originals. He'd gone through 3 in 6 months. I asked him if the difference in our engine-management strategies might provide the answer...
I'm pretty anal about running her up, 1st start of the day and of course allow a minimal run-down if stopping from a quick run. Other than that, I pretty much treat her like any other car. She's still as quick as ever she was and will show a clean pair of heels to damn near anything else on the road. I've owned her for 14 years now, turbo's are still the originals with no signs of damage or distress, my engineer tells me.
Can't be all bad, I reckon.
Perhaps another slightly relevant example... I have a twin-turbocharged car. She's quick, and I work her. When I get home, I simply turn her off, as would anyone with a normally aspirated car; no run-down, no idling, no bull****. I know when I hit the town limits that she's off the turbo's -all they're doing for the final drive home is spinning down and cooling. Perfect.
Now, a few years ago a young neighbour had a Godzilla, that from the time the engine fired in the morning was valve-bouncing up the road at the red-line. When he got home, it'd sit outside idling for anywhere between 15-30 minutes most nights.
One day he came to me when I was washing mine to enquire how many turbo's I'd gone through. Of course she was (and still is) on the originals. He'd gone through 3 in 6 months. I asked him if the difference in our engine-management strategies might provide the answer...
I'm pretty anal about running her up, 1st start of the day and of course allow a minimal run-down if stopping from a quick run. Other than that, I pretty much treat her like any other car. She's still as quick as ever she was and will show a clean pair of heels to damn near anything else on the road. I've owned her for 14 years now, turbo's are still the originals with no signs of damage or distress, my engineer tells me.
Can't be all bad, I reckon.
She's still as quick as ever she was and will show a clean pair of heels to damn near anything else on the road.
Dr
RadioSaigon- I would hazard a guess that you have water-cooled but oil lubricated turbo's. Most automotive turbo's since the early 1990's are cooled by coolant from the engine cooling system. You may already know this, but the coolant inlet and outlet fittings are installed to the turbo to allow convection cooling. Basically even with the engine turned off (and hence no water pump to flow coolant through the system) the warming of the coolant in the core of the turbo will keep enough coolant flowing to cool the bearings and avoid turbo damage. Older cars with older tech turbo's used to need turbo-timers to be installed so that you could park and get out of your car while the engine was still running to circulate oil through the turbocharger to cool it. Funnily enough the "fully sick" brigade that have these installed in newer cars dont actually need them.
Aircraft turbo's obviously have no coolant and are oil lubricated and cooled. As a few posters have already said, the coldest a turbocharger (note- NOT the engine) will ever be is on touchdown. The previous few minutes of descent before landing requires minimal engine power and hence the wastegate is normally fully open, meaning the turbo has already had its 'run-down' time. If you sit on the ground for 3-5 mins you are more than likely going to heating up your engine oil, and hence the turbocharger core. Its probably not going to damage it any further, but its really not required!
Aircraft turbo's obviously have no coolant and are oil lubricated and cooled. As a few posters have already said, the coldest a turbocharger (note- NOT the engine) will ever be is on touchdown. The previous few minutes of descent before landing requires minimal engine power and hence the wastegate is normally fully open, meaning the turbo has already had its 'run-down' time. If you sit on the ground for 3-5 mins you are more than likely going to heating up your engine oil, and hence the turbocharger core. Its probably not going to damage it any further, but its really not required!
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Originally Posted by FTDK
Except a big bore V8 that eats hair dryers for breakfast!
Originally Posted by Chadzat
I would hazard a guess...
She wasn't new when I bought her and she recently qualifies as a "veteran"! My point was that a properly cared-for turbo neither requires nor benefits from turbo-timers or extended run-downs. WRT your comments re aircraft turbo's, I know -I've spent a little time driving them- and concur! Really I think your comments just illustrate the point I was making, although I was probably less eloquent!
. No lag, no cooldown, boost driven by crankshaft not by fart....Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by FTDK
OK RS, time to show your cards, what manner of hair dryer are we talking about here and what is your 0-100 km time?
No, when I say Ford & Holden are yet to build anything that can touch me, I'm referring solely to real-world experience on-road. It's a pretty endless experience too BTW... every HSV, XRwhatever and other performance car on the road wants to have a go at you. Sometimes I play, often not. I just let them go... until I catch them in a corner a few minutes down the road, when all I do is pass them so I can watch another one dwindle in the mirror.... I'm usually in the pub with a jug & a pie consumed by the time they get to the end of the run
There's a cop that thought his XR8 was pretty quick, tried to show me over a mountain road one day. I passed him, he tried to keep up, but not for long. His mate pulled me up (at a very sedate 95kmh) right where I expected him to. I chatted the whole thing through with their boss about an hour and 130km further down the road at a meeting we both attended, just as I promised the one who pulled me up I would
We decided that XR8's really ain't that quick, really can't handle and the cop driving it was a (Richard Cranium).I could give you his telephone number if you like
OK, she's a 1990 Mitsubishi GTO
Dr
PS: .....and I would have nothing more to prove before we got to a corner!
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 17th Mar 2011 at 11:08.
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She's a great car for a 1990... can't help but wonder what a new technology new-build would go like -if they were ever game to build one!
We'll have to get together for a pie & a jug at minimum sometime
We'll have to get together for a pie & a jug at minimum sometime
This is becoming a serious thread drift but let me join in before it gets locked.
GTO is an iconic brand made famous by Ferrari back in the late '50's and early '60's then stolen by Pontiac of GM USA when they rebadged their Le Mans intermadiate sedans by fitting big block 389 ci engines thus creating the first factory built "hot rods" instantly creating a horsepower histeria right across the US. From there on engines grew in size and made their way into even smaller cars creating super cars like the Shelby Cobra's.
Japan has always been a leader in the world in copying super cars decided to steal this iconic badge and put it on the previously very seriously boring Mitsubishi buzz bucket but knowing that it will be a laugh with it's milk bottle size 2 liter engine so bolted a massive hair drier on to it to compensate and show some figures. It made impressive times alright.....
Which GTO would you own?
I do own one of them...and it is not the Jap one.
GTO is an iconic brand made famous by Ferrari back in the late '50's and early '60's then stolen by Pontiac of GM USA when they rebadged their Le Mans intermadiate sedans by fitting big block 389 ci engines thus creating the first factory built "hot rods" instantly creating a horsepower histeria right across the US. From there on engines grew in size and made their way into even smaller cars creating super cars like the Shelby Cobra's.
Japan has always been a leader in the world in copying super cars decided to steal this iconic badge and put it on the previously very seriously boring Mitsubishi buzz bucket but knowing that it will be a laugh with it's milk bottle size 2 liter engine so bolted a massive hair drier on to it to compensate and show some figures. It made impressive times alright.....
Which GTO would you own?
I do own one of them...and it is not the Jap one.
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hmmm... as far as I'm aware, the GTO marque doesn't owe loyalty to any particular brand, serving rather as an abbreviation for Gran Tourismo which is a spec the Mitsubishi GTO certainly fits.
The "milk bottle size 2 liter (sic) engine" to which you refer is, in fact a 3 Litre V6 -and a very appropriate fit, and a very capable and robust engine. I'm perfectly happy with the GTO I currently have, thank you. I certainly wouldn't thank you for a Yank Tank of any description. They still can't build a decent touring car. The Ferrari I may one day aspire to.
So what GTO do you have???
The "milk bottle size 2 liter (sic) engine" to which you refer is, in fact a 3 Litre V6 -and a very appropriate fit, and a very capable and robust engine. I'm perfectly happy with the GTO I currently have, thank you. I certainly wouldn't thank you for a Yank Tank of any description. They still can't build a decent touring car. The Ferrari I may one day aspire to.
So what GTO do you have???
There is no royalty, the reason why Pontiac managed to steal the badge. it stands for Gran Tourismo Omologato.
Guess what... i own the Yank Tank version. A 1967 Royal Bobcat with a dealer optioned 421 engine which I have have restored and slightly modified to the extent to give you enough fright for you to give up worshipping Jap Crap and buy real muscle.
Remember... there is no substitute for cubic inches.
Guess what... i own the Yank Tank version. A 1967 Royal Bobcat with a dealer optioned 421 engine which I have have restored and slightly modified to the extent to give you enough fright for you to give up worshipping Jap Crap and buy real muscle.
Remember... there is no substitute for cubic inches.
Remember... there is no substitute for cubic inches.
There's technology for one and another is simplistic elegance.
My fastest road car doesn't have a turbo, nor does it need one.
Two litres of Toyota that makes a good 220hp is enough.
I've never done a drag race in it either (I'm a circuit racer) but it should do the 1/4 mile in 11-something.
But back to the topic - What is the problem with fast cooling in a turbo piston aviation engine? I doubt the turbo unit itself is going to suffer from too-rapid cooling, so what is it? The barrels in the engine suffering from excessive temperature differential ... ?
I've never done a drag race in it either (I'm a circuit racer) but it should do the 1/4 mile in 11-something.
Dr
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Originally Posted by sms777
Remember... there is no substitute for cubic inches...
Brute horsepower has it's place, no argument... but I believe the spirit of the GTO tradition lies in grace, agility and the ability to maintain speed in whatever the road brings you. I reiterate, the Yanks have dismally failed to ever build a car capable of handling a corner -or IMO embodying any of those underlying qualities, and quite frankly I find them unappealing... ugly even. They just don't do it for me, I'm afraid. I'll take ability and finesse against brute horsepower every time.
To the OP: my apologies for the severe thread-drift! I can only hope the discussion surrounding turbo's has been of some benefit!
Last edited by RadioSaigon; 18th Mar 2011 at 00:27.
Biggest tip for flying the T206H
Read the Pilot's Operating Handbook. You won't be asked to fly it sight unseen.
Not trying to be a smartarse, but you should find everything you need to know in there before having to resort to asking a chat forum, then if the owner/operator (who will want the aircraft flown their way) or an engineer can't answer any specific issues, ask away.
Read the Pilot's Operating Handbook. You won't be asked to fly it sight unseen.
Not trying to be a smartarse, but you should find everything you need to know in there before having to resort to asking a chat forum, then if the owner/operator (who will want the aircraft flown their way) or an engineer can't answer any specific issues, ask away.
Wise words from MakeItHappenCaptain.
Also worth reading is Aircraft Engine Operating Guide by Kas Thomas.
So many variables in a turbo engine, a density controller not setup correctly, fuel controller not set correctly, EGT gauge not calibrated, EGT probe past it's best, leaks in the exhaust system, engine baffles, CHT probe, etc.
Now girls having a turbo on your four cylinder pox box may light your fire, and may get get your girlfriend's panties wet, but nothing beats the Australian legendary 1971 Ford XY GT HO Phase 3 for pure muscle car performance.
Also worth reading is Aircraft Engine Operating Guide by Kas Thomas.
So many variables in a turbo engine, a density controller not setup correctly, fuel controller not set correctly, EGT gauge not calibrated, EGT probe past it's best, leaks in the exhaust system, engine baffles, CHT probe, etc.
Now girls having a turbo on your four cylinder pox box may light your fire, and may get get your girlfriend's panties wet, but nothing beats the Australian legendary 1971 Ford XY GT HO Phase 3 for pure muscle car performance.