RA-Aus safety statistics?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Age: 45
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RA-Aus safety statistics?
Hi All,
I've been trying - & failing - to find some solid safety data on RA vs. GA flying in Australia. The sort of data I'm looking for include:
However, I've not been able to find any actual data myself to support this assertion, despite several hours persistent Googling. That may say more about my research skills than anything else though
Could someone please point me in the right direction?
Yours,
Duncan Bayne
I've been trying - & failing - to find some solid safety data on RA vs. GA flying in Australia. The sort of data I'm looking for include:
- the number of accidents per flying hours for RA & GA
- categorisation of accidents (e.g. mechanical failure, pilot error) & whether there is a difference in categorisation between RA & GA
However, I've not been able to find any actual data myself to support this assertion, despite several hours persistent Googling. That may say more about my research skills than anything else though
Could someone please point me in the right direction?
Yours,
Duncan Bayne
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have you tried asking the RA-Aus directly for the information? CEO Steve Tizzard would be your first call and he is fairly accessible.
They are usually a very private organization with he executive including board so requests often go through them and can be slow particularly if you after something that has the potential to damage the organization.
That being said there are often references to fatalities in the monthly magazine executive reports however they are usually just quoted as fatalities per year versus per flying hour, so ultimately they do possess the information that require.
Good luck.
They are usually a very private organization with he executive including board so requests often go through them and can be slow particularly if you after something that has the potential to damage the organization.
That being said there are often references to fatalities in the monthly magazine executive reports however they are usually just quoted as fatalities per year versus per flying hour, so ultimately they do possess the information that require.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Age: 45
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VH-XXX,
Thanks for the suggestion - I was (lazily, perhaps?) hoping there might be a more public source of data.
In the course of my hunting around I found a bazillion slides & graphs relating to GA operations, so was (naively, perhaps?) hoping the same info w.r.t. RA may be available on the 'net.
It's a shame that politics enters so strongly into the distribution & discussion of safety & safety data
That isn't a criticism, and it isn't aimed at RA-Aus. Regulars on every forum (be it GA, RA, motorcycling ...) seem to be afraid to openly discuss safety stats & problems (be they real or perceived) for fear of negative consequences to the group.
And perhaps they're right to be ... there are certainly enough politicians & whingers about who'd love find a scapegoat for their woes.
It doesn't make it easy for someone trying to form an objective opinion about safety matters however ...
Yours,
Duncan Bayne
Thanks for the suggestion - I was (lazily, perhaps?) hoping there might be a more public source of data.
In the course of my hunting around I found a bazillion slides & graphs relating to GA operations, so was (naively, perhaps?) hoping the same info w.r.t. RA may be available on the 'net.
It's a shame that politics enters so strongly into the distribution & discussion of safety & safety data
That isn't a criticism, and it isn't aimed at RA-Aus. Regulars on every forum (be it GA, RA, motorcycling ...) seem to be afraid to openly discuss safety stats & problems (be they real or perceived) for fear of negative consequences to the group.
And perhaps they're right to be ... there are certainly enough politicians & whingers about who'd love find a scapegoat for their woes.
It doesn't make it easy for someone trying to form an objective opinion about safety matters however ...
Yours,
Duncan Bayne
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Dunnunda
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The short answer is that it's not true. RA aircraft have a higher fatality rate than GA aircraft in PVT ops, and a much higher fatality rate than GA aircraft while training.
Also, the ATSB seems to have done some miscategorising - the 5 dead in the Caboolture skydiving crash should not be in the PVT ops section.
RV6s seem to be excessively represented in 2014, with _3_ fatal accidents (including one which was untrained low level aeros.)
to quote the ATSB:
Figure 22 shows the rate of accidents and fatal accidents involving recreational aeroplanes over
the 2005 to 2013 period. Despite the increase in flying activity, the accident rate has increased for
several consecutive years. In 2013, the recreational aeroplane accident rate in Australia (about
350 per million hours flown) was significantly higher than for any other type of flying, including
higher risk GA operations such as aerial agriculture (100 accidents per million hours flown) and
(VH-registered) private/business/sport (including gliding) (95 accidents per million hours flown).
The fatal accident rate involving recreational aeroplanes in 2013 (53 fatal accidents per million
hours flown) was significantly higher than for comparable private/business/sport (including gliding)
operations (20 fatal accidents per million hours flown).
If you compare equivalent ops mix (training + private), by averaging the GA numbers across training + private (weighted by hours flown), the numbers look even worse (53 to about 13).
There's no good way of comparing the VH- experimental fleet to the 19- experimental fleet, unfortunately, or compensating the other numbers to compare only factory-built aeroplanes.
Also, the ATSB seems to have done some miscategorising - the 5 dead in the Caboolture skydiving crash should not be in the PVT ops section.
ATSB is (for once) correct, all skydiving is legally private operations.
Tootle pip!!
RAA aircraft might have great fatalities, but if you put GA and RAA together and compare to pre RAA you might find pretty static statistical figures.
Further the figures need to be analysed. I suspect that due the largely u regulated (no CASA) Imput the number of participants has grown to a degree greater than in the old GA days of the 70's and 80's
Further the figures need to be analysed. I suspect that due the largely u regulated (no CASA) Imput the number of participants has grown to a degree greater than in the old GA days of the 70's and 80's
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dog House
Age: 49
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What are the stats for when meat bombers could be private cat aircraft, as per today must be charter cat aircraft?
I think you will find its not worth the cost again! for safety improvement??
I think you will find its not worth the cost again! for safety improvement??
Seems to me that the higher and ever increasing regulations and costs from CASA on VH aircraft results in pilots moving to lower cost aircraft .
Bit like making normal cars so expensive due to unique expensive safety requirements that Aussie families are forced to move to motor scooters.
Fortunately this has not happened.
Bit like making normal cars so expensive due to unique expensive safety requirements that Aussie families are forced to move to motor scooters.
Fortunately this has not happened.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dog House
Age: 49
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only a rumour I heard, but Meat Bomber operations had to agree to using charter aircraft category planes or face a world of hurtful compliance issues (but the regs had not changed). Sound's a bit Bullyish to me, but the fact is that is tactics used by our regulator.
Have I missed something, when was CAR 206 amended to make meat bombing a CAR 206
Tootle pip!!
PS: I rather suspect dehavillandpilot is on the right track, much of the bottom end of GA now happens in the "Recreational" sphere.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dog House
Age: 49
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't blink Lead.
Enhanced maintenance standards for parachute aircraft
In response to the investigation findings of the Willowbank accident and CASA’s analysis of the appropriate maintenance standards for aircraft engaged in parachute operations, CASA required aircraft engaged in parachute training operations and all tandem descents to be maintained to charter aircraft standards rather than private aircraft standards. Other requirements have also been imposed. The conduct of those operations is subject to supervision by the Australian Parachute Federation Incorporated (APF), with CASA exercising overarching control.
It aint all but almost every meat bomb operation.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Detai...Statement/Text
Enhanced maintenance standards for parachute aircraft
In response to the investigation findings of the Willowbank accident and CASA’s analysis of the appropriate maintenance standards for aircraft engaged in parachute operations, CASA required aircraft engaged in parachute training operations and all tandem descents to be maintained to charter aircraft standards rather than private aircraft standards. Other requirements have also been imposed. The conduct of those operations is subject to supervision by the Australian Parachute Federation Incorporated (APF), with CASA exercising overarching control.
It aint all but almost every meat bomb operation.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Detai...Statement/Text
Plus Skydive the Beach have an AOC.
Parachute operators who advertise parachute jumps in return for the payment of money are not engaged in a private operation, LeadSled. 
