YPJT Flight Schools - How Many Are Left and WHY..??
Thread Starter
YPJT Flight Schools - How Many Are Left and WHY..??
YPJT Flight Schools - How Many Are Left......
WHY...???....Is the big question.
Is it really the residual 'fallout' from the GFC..?
Is it the increases in the daily costs of living..?
Is it overcharging / rentals by airport operators...?
Is it Avgas fuel costs..?
A walk along the strip at JT from the far end shows
- RACWA
- Air Australia
- Minnovation
- JT Flight Centre
Any more...?? What IS the future of G/A in WA..?
Australia...?
Is it the same pattern in other states at other 'Corporation Leased' airports..?
DO ANY Politicians read these forums????
Sad state of affairs......
WHY...???....Is the big question.
Is it really the residual 'fallout' from the GFC..?
Is it the increases in the daily costs of living..?
Is it overcharging / rentals by airport operators...?
Is it Avgas fuel costs..?
A walk along the strip at JT from the far end shows
- RACWA
- Air Australia
- Minnovation
- JT Flight Centre
Any more...?? What IS the future of G/A in WA..?
Australia...?
Is it the same pattern in other states at other 'Corporation Leased' airports..?
DO ANY Politicians read these forums????
Sad state of affairs......
I believe ACFT are still operating, and there's an RAA school who's name escapes me waaaay down the northern end near Heliwest.
Rotorvation are still operating.
China Southern and Singapore are still there, but they probably don't "count" as they don't accept local students.
Rotorvation are still operating.
China Southern and Singapore are still there, but they probably don't "count" as they don't accept local students.
Thread Starter
Yes, because they are a 'closed shop' to 'the public', I did not count these airline sponsored schools.
ACFT is ..??
I am not familiar with them.
Cheers
ACFT is ..??
I am not familiar with them.
Cheers
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I'd settle for just one at YSCB.. but sadly there are no flight schools left at the nation's capital airport. It was a great place to learn, in class C from day one, very helpful and tolerant ATC, reasonable taxi times most days, two long runways (multiple touch n go's on 35 if you ask) and two large training areas.
Nearest now is Goulburn or Moruya, adds significantly to the cost of flying if you live in Canberra.
.260
Nearest now is Goulburn or Moruya, adds significantly to the cost of flying if you live in Canberra.
.260
I think a lack of commitment by the regulator and the airport leaseholders has led to a few flying schools surviving at Jandakot. I do think that with sustained effort the few left can be easily reduced to one fulfilling the wishes of both parties. Less aircraft flying means SAFER SKIES FOR ALL qed. Once demand dries up those housing blocks will be lovely. With streets named after the aircraft types that used to fly there. Cherokee Drive, Cessna Avenue and Piper Court.
I wonder how many kids read war comics these days, increasingly I think we are like the train engineers of 100 odd years ago.
It just ain't that interesting any more.
example: my kids school year book, not one graduating student out of their high school is planning any sort of career in aviation.
Along with all the other confounding factors mentioned already of course.
It just ain't that interesting any more.
example: my kids school year book, not one graduating student out of their high school is planning any sort of career in aviation.
Along with all the other confounding factors mentioned already of course.
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my kids school year book, not one graduating student out of their high school is planning any sort of career in aviation.
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increasingly I think we are like the train engineers of 100 odd years ago.
What is considered a glamorous job these days? I bet in reality they're dull compared to flying for a living.
Last edited by Aerozepplin; 1st Feb 2011 at 19:44.
increasingly I think we are like the train engineers of 100 odd years ago.
This rise has nothing to do with operators making money either it is all down to the cost of operating the aircraft. Aquistion, parts, maintenance and fuel have all at least doubled in real cost.
All this has occured when the disposable income of those who have the wish to fly has decreased. The end result is less hours per school and the steady decline of operators.
Throw in a few new taxes and charges and it only creates a larger problem. But even if a lot of these were dropped it would have little impact.
The spiral downwards is only moderated by the few large flying schools supported by the cadet programs. Even these feel the pinch as operating costs increase. As less flying occurs maintenance providers go out of business meaning less options and competition and maintenance and parts become even more expensive etc.....
You would think there would be a balance but as it gets more expensive less fly and so the trend continues. This will also hit the airlines in the same way in a few years time as fares start to rise due to the recent inflamatory pressures pushing up wages parts and finance costs. Less will fly across too many aircraft and operators and there will be much stress across the board. The GFC showed how fragile some of the large operators are, all it takes is a hiccup in expansion and profits tumble.
And at YMMB there is:
- Oxford- expanding into the ex-CASA building. More C172's. Nice Kingair 90GTI. Jetstar ab-initio
- MFS- new glass cockpit Warriors and Seminoles
- RVAC- plenty of planes, which they need to replace the ones that have, err,....
- PBAFT- busy
- Melbourne Flight Training
- MAS- still adding planes but their MT area looks like awreckers yeard
- Tristar- busy
- Oasis
- TVSA- sign still up in King Island terminal but as for business?
- Vortex Air- Tasfast still trying to set up an operation
- and of course PHS and Helicopter Group buzzing around all day long
And at YMMB there is:
- Ausair
- Schutt
- Civil
- Troy
- TVSA (moved all ops to Bacchus)
- MFTA (moved all ops to MNG)
- Superior
- Aero Imports
- numerous other small operators and maintenance facilities.
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YPJT Flight Schools - How Many Are Left......
WHY...???....Is the big question.
Is it really the residual 'fallout' from the GFC..?
Is it the increases in the daily costs of living..?
Is it overcharging / rentals by airport operators...?
Is it Avgas fuel costs..?
WHY...???....Is the big question.
Is it really the residual 'fallout' from the GFC..?
Is it the increases in the daily costs of living..?
Is it overcharging / rentals by airport operators...?
Is it Avgas fuel costs..?
Rates:
April 20008: C172 $169 Mooney $213
Aug 2008: C172 $195 Mooney $238
Feb 2010: C172 $199 Mooney $239
May 2010: C172 $226 Mooney $235
July 2010 C172 $229 Mooney $269
Feb 2011: same as July 2010 rates yet:
Comparative undiscounted AVGAS rates:
April 2008 $1.65
Aug 2008 $1.83
Feb 2010 $1.59
July 2010 $1.73
Jan 2011: $1.74
In last 3 years... LAME rates increasing $10/hr each year.
Parking and landing fees have just gone up for 2011.
In my opinion, once aircraft rates go up another 15% then we might be at a reasonable "just viable" basis.
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You're all missing the point - -
The very grass root cause for the decline in the GA sector must be sheeted home to the unarguably subjective opinions of almost every CASA FOI in Oz. The most famously recent occurred at YSBK, where an FOI alleged that there was alcohol on the breath of a pilot that the FOI had dealings with some 8 months previously - result - the pilots medical was suspended on the spot, he had to undergo an alcohol focussed DAMP remediation, (which proved negative), during which time said pilots CIR expired, and now, some 4 month later, the local CASA office is being totally uncooperative in assisting said pilot regain his CIR. And no, it is not me, and is also not hearsay.
The industry needs to get together and stop this subjective behaviour, and demand an objective, level playing field.
And whilst the industry is about it, the AAT process must be abandoned in favour of conventional Westminster legal procedures wherein the conventional and accepted rules of evidence apply. That is to say, when a CASA FOI introduces evidence in support of a CASA prosecution, then that evidence can be properly tested in traditional court of law, and where, for those unable to afford it, a publicly funded defense is available.
The industry needs to get together and stop this subjective behaviour, and demand an objective, level playing field.
And whilst the industry is about it, the AAT process must be abandoned in favour of conventional Westminster legal procedures wherein the conventional and accepted rules of evidence apply. That is to say, when a CASA FOI introduces evidence in support of a CASA prosecution, then that evidence can be properly tested in traditional court of law, and where, for those unable to afford it, a publicly funded defense is available.
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What does it cost to get a CPL these days, $80-$100 000?
And whats the ratio of those who do the licence and get a job with the airlines?
People these days wont risk that kind of money for that much risk.
Less students, less schools.
I reckon there's your answer.
And whats the ratio of those who do the licence and get a job with the airlines?
People these days wont risk that kind of money for that much risk.
Less students, less schools.
I reckon there's your answer.
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VH-UFO
You are correct - and I shouldn't think that there would be any more than 60 odd % get an airline gig.
Wot a rort - gimme your $100,000, we'll train you. But what was that I hear - you want a job afterwards? Wellll - that is a different matter, not sure that we can help you there.
And if BK is anything to go by, even less ATO's. The merest sniff (don't worry about proof) of anything agin the wishes an FOI will see all approvals cancelled, and, in some cases, a multi thousand hour ATO reduced to a student pilot licence.
Bring on an objective based system, tick the necessary boxes, all done - or there won't be a GA industry. And soon.
Wot a rort - gimme your $100,000, we'll train you. But what was that I hear - you want a job afterwards? Wellll - that is a different matter, not sure that we can help you there.
And if BK is anything to go by, even less ATO's. The merest sniff (don't worry about proof) of anything agin the wishes an FOI will see all approvals cancelled, and, in some cases, a multi thousand hour ATO reduced to a student pilot licence.
Bring on an objective based system, tick the necessary boxes, all done - or there won't be a GA industry. And soon.
Wot a rort - gimme your $100,000, we'll train you. But what was that I hear - you want a job afterwards? Wellll - that is a different matter, not sure that we can help you there.
If the school is giving misleading information regarding employment after training then sure, that is a bastard act. The school I was associated with certainly never did that though. But then again, most of our revenue didn't come from commercial training (not that it would have made an ethical difference to us).
Singapore are doing the training for ECU these days. Do they count as public?
I'd say that many of the students that now complete the HECS/FEE HELP ECU CPL, through SFC, would once have gone to WAAC or any of the other flying schools on the strip.
I'd say that many of the students that now complete the HECS/FEE HELP ECU CPL, through SFC, would once have gone to WAAC or any of the other flying schools on the strip.