Safety hits another low in Australian Aviation
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: room 320
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its unfortunate for the management. their response will be greeted with distrust, why, because they cannot be trusted.
Recent moving of the deck chairs has not changed management culture, just the names on their doors!
I understand the issue that lead to the stick shaker was addressed months ago at a check meeting, post the Emirates incident. The powers that be declared it not important "our sytems work well". well they don't do they? Evidenced by the changes that happened post haste when outside bodies get involved..
As an extra HFO had "serious accident" this morning so things may have slowed down even more.
Recent moving of the deck chairs has not changed management culture, just the names on their doors!
I understand the issue that lead to the stick shaker was addressed months ago at a check meeting, post the Emirates incident. The powers that be declared it not important "our sytems work well". well they don't do they? Evidenced by the changes that happened post haste when outside bodies get involved..
As an extra HFO had "serious accident" this morning so things may have slowed down even more.
Yes the data would have been "picked up" but it would have been de-identified. The deed and the Policy and Procedures would not allow the release of the names under these circumstances I believe.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you saying that the crew self reported then got demoted?
ICAO -
"A culture in which front line operators or others are not
punished for actions, omissions or decisions taken by
them that are commensurate with their experience and
training, but where gross negligence, wilful violations and destructive acts are not tolerated".
Standing down a pilot(s) while they retain full pay is a normal part of an investigative process, especially if initially it appears that there may be have been the potential for a serious outcome form the incident. No unjsutice there. It is the follwow-up actions by management that reflect whether Just Culture principles are applied within the organisation from top to bottom.
punished for actions, omissions or decisions taken by
them that are commensurate with their experience and
training, but where gross negligence, wilful violations and destructive acts are not tolerated".
Standing down a pilot(s) while they retain full pay is a normal part of an investigative process, especially if initially it appears that there may be have been the potential for a serious outcome form the incident. No unjsutice there. It is the follwow-up actions by management that reflect whether Just Culture principles are applied within the organisation from top to bottom.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More Information....
For the information of TWU members
Reproduced from an email sent to the membership last Friday.
Dear Members,
For your information;
Please find documents attached which relate to a workplace dispute that has developed from the Company's alleged mishandling of a Flight Operations investigation.
In short, we allege arbitrary decision-making and a disregard for Company Policy and procedures.
So far, the Company has refused to address our concerns and has stated, in writing, that they are unwilling to review the matter any further.
What does it all mean?
* If the Company is successful, then each and every flight is a 'check' flight and the Head of Flying Operations may fail you, retrospectively, for any flight whenever he decides it is necessary.
* At the moment it is an 'incident' flight, but, what's next?
* Captain ********** self-reported and look at what happened to him!
* Will the next Crew self-report or will they rely on the protection of the FOQA deed?
* So what will happen to the 'Reporting Culture' and the Company's Safety Management System?
We need your help
The Transport Workers' Union (WA Branch) and its Delegates are representing Captain ********** in this matter.
Over the coming days and weeks we will be organising TWU Union meetings to discuss this important issue and will be inviting TWU Officials to visit the work site in order to raise and address key safety issues with the membership.
Please show your support by attending these meetings.
Also, in the CNS and DRW Crew Rooms (coming soon to PER) there is a petition supporting our call to reinstate Captain **********. Please consider supporting our cause by signing the petition.
This is happening to **********, but, it could be happening to any one of us. Who will be next?
Most Importantly, if you feel that the 'Reporting Culture' and the Company's Safety Management System are damaged by the Company's treatment of Captain **********, then, please report your concerns, confidentially if needed, to the ATSB and Group Safety.
Regards,
**********
TWU Delegate
Reproduced from an email sent to the membership last Friday.
Dear Members,
For your information;
Please find documents attached which relate to a workplace dispute that has developed from the Company's alleged mishandling of a Flight Operations investigation.
In short, we allege arbitrary decision-making and a disregard for Company Policy and procedures.
So far, the Company has refused to address our concerns and has stated, in writing, that they are unwilling to review the matter any further.
What does it all mean?
* If the Company is successful, then each and every flight is a 'check' flight and the Head of Flying Operations may fail you, retrospectively, for any flight whenever he decides it is necessary.
* At the moment it is an 'incident' flight, but, what's next?
* Captain ********** self-reported and look at what happened to him!
* Will the next Crew self-report or will they rely on the protection of the FOQA deed?
* So what will happen to the 'Reporting Culture' and the Company's Safety Management System?
We need your help
The Transport Workers' Union (WA Branch) and its Delegates are representing Captain ********** in this matter.
Over the coming days and weeks we will be organising TWU Union meetings to discuss this important issue and will be inviting TWU Officials to visit the work site in order to raise and address key safety issues with the membership.
Please show your support by attending these meetings.
Also, in the CNS and DRW Crew Rooms (coming soon to PER) there is a petition supporting our call to reinstate Captain **********. Please consider supporting our cause by signing the petition.
This is happening to **********, but, it could be happening to any one of us. Who will be next?
Most Importantly, if you feel that the 'Reporting Culture' and the Company's Safety Management System are damaged by the Company's treatment of Captain **********, then, please report your concerns, confidentially if needed, to the ATSB and Group Safety.
Regards,
**********
TWU Delegate
Last edited by War with Inner Peace; 10th Jan 2011 at 15:51. Reason: typo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: room 320
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bring in the reserve YES man.
They threw in a new MFC to boot.
Lets give him a week and then hang him! He is qualified, straight from the Adelaide school of HR
Maybe a change of faces will create the opportunity to revisit this situation. I'm am not convinced it was all up to HFO, maybe some pressure from above or outside, but hey, some times you need to say NO.
I can't understand the logic of lets try and fail some one, it would be easier on all of us if the logic was reversed to lets do what we can to pass them.
That doesn't need the standards to be lowered, in fact they need to be raised.
I don't think the current mob, with maybe the exception of the new bloke, (havent seen him in action yet) have that ability.
Its a changing world out there in regards to experience and standards, training departments need to recognise it and adjust their "training" to suit. I think we lack people who have experience in training, at best they have done some airline line training, and the results are obvious.
The feeling amongst the crews is as expected however still dissapointing to see, the "Just Culture" environment has taken one huge hit. That cannot be good.
I can't understand the logic of lets try and fail some one, it would be easier on all of us if the logic was reversed to lets do what we can to pass them.
That doesn't need the standards to be lowered, in fact they need to be raised.
I don't think the current mob, with maybe the exception of the new bloke, (havent seen him in action yet) have that ability.
Its a changing world out there in regards to experience and standards, training departments need to recognise it and adjust their "training" to suit. I think we lack people who have experience in training, at best they have done some airline line training, and the results are obvious.
The feeling amongst the crews is as expected however still dissapointing to see, the "Just Culture" environment has taken one huge hit. That cannot be good.
Apparently the event was considered a "fail" from a T&C point of view and so poor sim became a second "fail" leading to demotion. So all line flights are now considered checks?
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Australia
Age: 62
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if I understand this correctly, a pilot had an incident, which he self reported, this was "investigated" (by who) sent to the sim to be rechecked, didn't go so well, therefore demoted?
If this is an accurate description of the events, then there is obviously some serious problems within the check and training systems at this particular company.
Good luck on your line flights guys, be careful about reporting anything from abird-strike up.
If this is an accurate description of the events, then there is obviously some serious problems within the check and training systems at this particular company.
Good luck on your line flights guys, be careful about reporting anything from abird-strike up.
