Selection of Levels in Controlled Airspace
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willadvise,
If my memory serves (and too tired to look it up) in the previous version of the MATS there was an exception in teh non-standard level assignment section that gave an exception for radar to radar sectors, or something along that line. That was taken out/deleted in the latest addition or so. which is why us radar to radar sectors in theory have to go through the same hoo-haa and time wasting as everyone else.
everyone,
And if everyone is flying at standard levels still doesnt stop the crossing tracks (at the same sequential level, i.e. either both odds or both evens) from having a MAC, be it radar or proc airspace. In radar airspace thats what actually looking at whats coming into the airspace in the not too distant future is all about.
Anyway, off to watch the cricket highlights....
If my memory serves (and too tired to look it up) in the previous version of the MATS there was an exception in teh non-standard level assignment section that gave an exception for radar to radar sectors, or something along that line. That was taken out/deleted in the latest addition or so. which is why us radar to radar sectors in theory have to go through the same hoo-haa and time wasting as everyone else.
everyone,
And if everyone is flying at standard levels still doesnt stop the crossing tracks (at the same sequential level, i.e. either both odds or both evens) from having a MAC, be it radar or proc airspace. In radar airspace thats what actually looking at whats coming into the airspace in the not too distant future is all about.
Anyway, off to watch the cricket highlights....
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Block levels are a pet hate of mine, when not operationally necessary. I am aware of one international carrier that requests them as a matter of course, and when they fly into an adjoining FIR ATC would rather deny everyone else their planned level than cancel the block clearance. Grrrrrr.
Anyway, off to watch the cricket highlights....
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Let's just timetable it so no two aircraft are in one place at one time - should mean we can get rid of ATC all together - imagine the cost savings!!!!1!11!!one
Seriously though, if you took a snapshot of some sectors around OZ, and observed the number of crossing tracks where, if all aircraft flew standard levels, the potential number of conflicts would be increased by applying the standard level requirement. The strict application of standard levels only works 95% of the time IMHO. The other 5% a level change or vector is required to avoid trouble. In en-route surveillance airspace 99% of the time i`ll change a level.
Some of the "armchair experts" from higher up need to take a look at the volume of traffic and the number of conflicts in most sectors. Maybe we could set up a project, call in the consultants and hold regular meetings to justify a large expense account associated with the project. I reckon we could stretch it our for a couple of years with no result at the end. Ooohh the "jollys". Overseas trips to Europe, the States etc. to coincide with a little sporting event or two on the side. Where do i sign up?
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Hey Roger,
Can you book this in for the next Ashes series in England, Rotorblades will be keen to go......
Not sure he will be getting any more first class treatment in the Retard Vehicle -10 
Cheeky Bugger!
J
Can you book this in for the next Ashes series in England, Rotorblades will be keen to go......
Anyway, off to watch the cricket highlights....
Cheeky Bugger!
J
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Some of the "armchair experts" from higher up need to take a look at the volume of traffic and the number of conflicts in most sectors. Maybe we could set up a project, call in the consultants and hold regular meetings to justify a large expense account associated with the project. I reckon we could stretch it our for a couple of years with no result at the end. Ooohh the "jollys". Overseas trips to Europe, the States etc. to coincide with a little sporting event or two on the side. Where do i sign up?
It always amuses me when governments and large corporations quote a large $ amount spent on addressing concerns. Your average punter equates money spent equals getting a result. What they don't realise is that someone, or a lot of people, on a large salary flew business class (many times), stayed in 5 star hotels with expense accounts and wrote a report with all the required 'bingo' words i.e. Worlds Best Practice, key stakeholders, positioning for the future, the word paradigm at least 3 times, cost/benefit analysis, etc. The upshot is usually a direction that has some semblance of common sense but proves unworkable in an operational sense 100% of the time.
Which segues nicely into why this thread was started.
The difference between a rort and a perk? A rort is something that you are not involved in. I'll get in the queue with Roger Sir if this one gets up.
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Yo Jaba,
gotta gloat whist I can, its rare as rocking horse doo. Anyway the last 3 tests'll go to Australia. And ozzies didnt do tooo badly (in the last 2 english innings they only conceded about 1,130 runs for 6 wickets)
Tis honestly a shame the aussie team cant put on a better show I was looking for a really close series, whichever way it went/goes.
Rb
(secretly supporting Australia but dont tell the rest of the expats)
gotta gloat whist I can, its rare as rocking horse doo. Anyway the last 3 tests'll go to Australia. And ozzies didnt do tooo badly (in the last 2 english innings they only conceded about 1,130 runs for 6 wickets)
no more first class treatment
Tis honestly a shame the aussie team cant put on a better show I was looking for a really close series, whichever way it went/goes.
Rb
(secretly supporting Australia but dont tell the rest of the expats)
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RB
I think over some fine Indian Curry we discussed the up coming Ashes.....looks like I will have to eat my words and take another dose of that chilli stuff
Being flogged at home is something we colonials are not good at taking
NOTAMS should read, on first contact with BNE CEN north of Sydney and detecting a pommy accent, request unworkable levels and tracks
J
I think over some fine Indian Curry we discussed the up coming Ashes.....looks like I will have to eat my words and take another dose of that chilli stuff
Being flogged at home is something we colonials are not good at taking
NOTAMS should read, on first contact with BNE CEN north of Sydney and detecting a pommy accent, request unworkable levels and tracks
J
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The thing the higher ups miss is that standard levels only work if the conflicting traffic are in different hemispheres. They hear 'opposite direction' and imagine same track and opposite direction.
Traffic crossing at MRW north of PH is a perfect example. Inbound to PH,a/c tracking just east of south at standard level. Outbound a/c tracking just east of north wants same standard level. (As an aside I gather NZ runs N/S standard levels rather than E/W because most of their traffic is N/S.)
Standard levels have a powerful attraction for managers and regulators though. Firstly, 'Standard' is currently a holy word. Secondly, non-standard levels have figured in more than a few incidents. There are no reports or studies that show the millions of conflicts solved by non standard levels, so that doesn't figure in the thought processes.
As per usual, the problem with armchair experts is not that they don't know and understand, it's that they don't know or understand that they don't know and understand.
PS. Is it cricket time again?
Traffic crossing at MRW north of PH is a perfect example. Inbound to PH,a/c tracking just east of south at standard level. Outbound a/c tracking just east of north wants same standard level. (As an aside I gather NZ runs N/S standard levels rather than E/W because most of their traffic is N/S.)
Standard levels have a powerful attraction for managers and regulators though. Firstly, 'Standard' is currently a holy word. Secondly, non-standard levels have figured in more than a few incidents. There are no reports or studies that show the millions of conflicts solved by non standard levels, so that doesn't figure in the thought processes.
As per usual, the problem with armchair experts is not that they don't know and understand, it's that they don't know or understand that they don't know and understand.
PS. Is it cricket time again?
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There are no reports or studies that show the millions of conflicts solved by non standard levels, so that doesn't figure in the thought processes.
Good point Nautilus. The airspace i`m thinking of would have many, many conflictions per day with all aircraft operating at standard levels. From my memory there has been two instances over a lenghty period of time where two got too close whilst operating at a standard level. How many times has a non-standard level been used to keep `em apart? I`d hazard a guess and say 20 times per day but i could be wrong.
Only in Canberra does one size fit all!
RB, When is the next game old boy? Too soon methinks. Ooohhhh the pain..
Last edited by Roger Sir; 9th Dec 2010 at 06:04. Reason: Forgot to mention the cricket!
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Roger Sir,
I think it starts thursday-ish in Perth. And look on the bright side, things can only get better. Dont worry England are good at throwing things away so you'll win the series 3-1.
Jaba
You'll have to add onto that NOTAM : Expect Vectors for Controller Amusement
And that chilli stuff was just outrageously hot, although the look on your face did make me want to get my camera
Cheers All
Rb
I think it starts thursday-ish in Perth. And look on the bright side, things can only get better. Dont worry England are good at throwing things away so you'll win the series 3-1.
Jaba
You'll have to add onto that NOTAM : Expect Vectors for Controller Amusement
And that chilli stuff was just outrageously hot, although the look on your face did make me want to get my camera
Cheers All
Rb
