Pelair Vic B200 Ambo - How Much $$$?
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Pelair Vic B200 Ambo - How Much $$$?
How much are Rex/Pelair paying for the B200 jobs in Victoria???
I don't think they have an EBA/Agreement in place and I don't expect they'll get the staff with the qualifications they are looking for at the award rate.
Ad says they are looking for 18 pilots - I thought there were only 12 or so under the current RFDS management at the moment. Maybe some P/T or casuals???
In addition to the hours required (whcih looks pretty standard) they also now want minimum 5 years experience and ATPL. Are they going to be scratching around for pilots?
[[ p.s. - I'm not in the race for this gig (or any other CPL job at this stage), just want to see where the industry/employment market is going.
I'm still on the edge of deciding whether to spend the money to get CPL, spend $100K and leave my office/legal job pinned to a desk to take up a life of aviation poverty with no prospect of getting a big shiny jet in an airline, as I'm over 40.
I don't think they have an EBA/Agreement in place and I don't expect they'll get the staff with the qualifications they are looking for at the award rate.
Ad says they are looking for 18 pilots - I thought there were only 12 or so under the current RFDS management at the moment. Maybe some P/T or casuals???
In addition to the hours required (whcih looks pretty standard) they also now want minimum 5 years experience and ATPL. Are they going to be scratching around for pilots?
[[ p.s. - I'm not in the race for this gig (or any other CPL job at this stage), just want to see where the industry/employment market is going.
I'm still on the edge of deciding whether to spend the money to get CPL, spend $100K and leave my office/legal job pinned to a desk to take up a life of aviation poverty with no prospect of getting a big shiny jet in an airline, as I'm over 40.
Stay in law, make money, buy own plane.
I have heard they will be offering around 80K. Their requirements would be stipulated by the ambos. I'm not to sure what the going rate for this kind of work in OZ is,but I personally recon it's not enough,I'd expect about 100K at least,if they want to compete with the airlines and not be used a springboard to jet jobs.
"PD" I thought there for a moment you where seeking info on the Ambos who fly in the B200
Their the rich ones in this business
It takes around 15 drivers or so to make the current roster work that is aligned with the Ambo's roster so 18 or so that Pelair are mooting is beyond what's required at the moment. Either they are going to make it easier to administer the tasks by having more drivers or have other ideas with the excess pilots.
12 pilots at the moment is simply not doable.
As for reward? Well that's any ones guess but as it's a Gov contract that was won over the RFDS then it had to be so 'cause of $$$$. And the only thing that is variable as far as operating costs go to support that undercutting bid was/is the human element of it.
It's a great gig, low hrs, sleep on some night shifts, good gear & the Ambo's are great guys/gals to work with at the coal face. The only requirement for this job is switched on experienced drivers, they would be getting harder & harder to find out there these days in the dwindling pool of those that have done it the traditional way, hard bloody work!
Personally I wouldn't let anyone thru the front door with less than 2.5K hrs TTand a min of 1500 hrs twin SP Ops with bush day/night experience & min of 5 renewals, less than that has bitten the RFDS in the backside a few times.
Wmk2
Their the rich ones in this businessIt takes around 15 drivers or so to make the current roster work that is aligned with the Ambo's roster so 18 or so that Pelair are mooting is beyond what's required at the moment. Either they are going to make it easier to administer the tasks by having more drivers or have other ideas with the excess pilots.
12 pilots at the moment is simply not doable.
As for reward? Well that's any ones guess but as it's a Gov contract that was won over the RFDS then it had to be so 'cause of $$$$. And the only thing that is variable as far as operating costs go to support that undercutting bid was/is the human element of it.
It's a great gig, low hrs, sleep on some night shifts, good gear & the Ambo's are great guys/gals to work with at the coal face. The only requirement for this job is switched on experienced drivers, they would be getting harder & harder to find out there these days in the dwindling pool of those that have done it the traditional way, hard bloody work!
Personally I wouldn't let anyone thru the front door with less than 2.5K hrs TTand a min of 1500 hrs twin SP Ops with bush day/night experience & min of 5 renewals, less than that has bitten the RFDS in the backside a few times.
Wmk2
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Hey Wal,
Is it true that the RFDS being a 'charity', the income tax rate is significantly different to that of us non-charity workers? If so how will that compare at take home time with the new operator?
Is it true that the RFDS being a 'charity', the income tax rate is significantly different to that of us non-charity workers? If so how will that compare at take home time with the new operator?
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What's been previously stated in the thread is pretty close to the offer Pelair have proposed to the current pilot group. They have also made the cunning move of dangling a carrot to those who stay for at least 12 months. I reckon there will be up to 10 who will stay on. It is true working for a "non profit" organisation like the RFDS there is a nice little tax break. Much to the annoyance of other competing organisations I guess. Its part of the reason everyone was alittle shocked and bewildered how Pelair was able to tender a winning bid. 18 pilots!!! I would like too see that. It would make our roster very nice. Maybe its Pelair's attempt to make the job more enticing for the right people. And the right people is who they need to find. So what if there are new aircraft too fly. In the end you still need to fly single pilot, 24/7, into alot of different places. And what occurs in the back isnt every one's cup of tea. In my opinion it is an easy job and a hard job not forgetting that darn simulator either.
Hi 'dog'.........nah Wally has left the 'retirement village'. 
Great job & I have made some life long friends whom I'll miss terribly 
As for the old cranky Beech Sim? Well best thing they ever did was use that, it really is a 'filter' to find the best of the best I reckon if you can fly that with precision then yr a walk up for sure to be a space shuttle driver
"yowie" I think you know the deal there, 'scarediecat' summed it up well
Wmk2
Great job & I have made some life long friends whom I'll miss terribly As for the old cranky Beech Sim? Well best thing they ever did was use that, it really is a 'filter' to find the best of the best I reckon if you can fly that with precision then yr a walk up for sure to be a space shuttle driver"yowie" I think you know the deal there, 'scarediecat' summed it up well
Wmk2
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Cold hard cash bonus ecovictim, cold hard cash!!! The best motivator in the western world. Mind you most will be lost to the ATO 
. You raise a very valid point. B350's is what AV wanted. Having not been privy too the decision making progress, we can only guess what Pelairs plans were. I think the RFDS originally quoted with B200's only and then was requested to submit a second option including the B350's. The limitations of the B350 only came too light for AV late in their process-I think. In my humble opinion I suspect AV were determined to choose Pelair come Hell or high water!! When hell and high water did come (ie Norfollk Is) they still picked Pelair!! But hey its their party and they reserve the right to invite who they want.
. You raise a very valid point. B350's is what AV wanted. Having not been privy too the decision making progress, we can only guess what Pelairs plans were. I think the RFDS originally quoted with B200's only and then was requested to submit a second option including the B350's. The limitations of the B350 only came too light for AV late in their process-I think. In my humble opinion I suspect AV were determined to choose Pelair come Hell or high water!! When hell and high water did come (ie Norfollk Is) they still picked Pelair!! But hey its their party and they reserve the right to invite who they want.
'eocvictim' there was no contractual requirements for 350's in Victoria it was optional so all whom thru their hat in the ring would have figured for both types just in case. In my opinion the 350's are not required in Vic so the undercutting would have been purely thru absorbing the real cost of running the contract thru PelAir's large money making operation. PelAir have a lot of clout I believe so who knows what deals where done & it matters none now anyway Govt's the world over mostly haven't got a clue when it comes to this sort of thing!
Wmk2
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Does anyone know how Pelair air going to roster the pilots for this new contract ? I'd assume the shifts will be 12 hours. Any idea if they will be doing like 3 or 4 days on followed by 3 or 4 off ? I'm looking at the family and lifestyle issues.
If Pelair are going to use the sim at Ansett to do the initial training and 6 monthly checks,that's a good thing even know sims can be rather sensitive to fly. As long as they use the sim as a training tool rather than a torture box a lot of good things can be achieved.
Brand new aircraft seem quite attractive,and I'm assuming the aircraft will be fitted with the Pro Line 21 avionics gear as well.
If Pelair are going to use the sim at Ansett to do the initial training and 6 monthly checks,that's a good thing even know sims can be rather sensitive to fly. As long as they use the sim as a training tool rather than a torture box a lot of good things can be achieved.
Brand new aircraft seem quite attractive,and I'm assuming the aircraft will be fitted with the Pro Line 21 avionics gear as well.
Why does everyone assume that someone wins a contract by undercutting the encumbant?
I've seen it many times before when a more expensive option is picked for one reason or another. I'm not saying that has happened in this case as I have not one iota of connection to this contract (I'm a blender driver).
I have actually lost count as to how many times another operator has won a contract purely based on the fact that the client no longer wants the current operator their anymore. No slur on RFDS here. I'm simply pointing out that Pelair very well could have been an expensive option contrary to what's being suggested.
I've seen it many times before when a more expensive option is picked for one reason or another. I'm not saying that has happened in this case as I have not one iota of connection to this contract (I'm a blender driver).
I have actually lost count as to how many times another operator has won a contract purely based on the fact that the client no longer wants the current operator their anymore. No slur on RFDS here. I'm simply pointing out that Pelair very well could have been an expensive option contrary to what's being suggested.
I don't disagree with you, but never say never... I've seen it happen before, and I'm sure it will happen again.
Just as an example, i've seen a contract awarded to another operator in the past, their tender was far more expensive and not even their core business. Purely as a result of the personality clashes.
Once again I'm certainly not suggesting that happened in this case, merely pointing out that it's not correct to always assume that because someone else is taking over it doesn't mean they're doing it cheaper.
Just as an example, i've seen a contract awarded to another operator in the past, their tender was far more expensive and not even their core business. Purely as a result of the personality clashes.
Once again I'm certainly not suggesting that happened in this case, merely pointing out that it's not correct to always assume that because someone else is taking over it doesn't mean they're doing it cheaper.
This decision boiled down to money at the end of the day,pure & simple!
The RFDS did a great job over the last 10+ years as can be told by those at the coal face, those who actually do the work but as for the upper management? Well that's anyone's guess!
As with all Govt contracts there is an element of human corruption.
Wmk2
The RFDS did a great job over the last 10+ years as can be told by those at the coal face, those who actually do the work but as for the upper management? Well that's anyone's guess!
As with all Govt contracts there is an element of human corruption.
Wmk2
Les you are quite right there but I did include the words 'upper management'. Am sure AAV had some issues with the RFDS I have no doubt about that but those at the coal face never really knew why but I can tell you & all who are reading this it WAS money at the end of the day but there would have been 'other' forces that came into play to effect the ousting of the current contractors. It was never a question that the RFDS could or couldn't do the task for Christ sake they are the specialists in this area so capabilities had zip to do with at the end of the day.
One day I would love to know why thru the FOI act as to why the RFDS lost it but hey we are talking about a Govt contract here & simple employees who never really get appreciated at times.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank my college's those whom read these pages it has been the most wonderful 10 yrs in the service & I'll have many war stories to tell as the years pass by:-) I know that it was the best job that I ever had
To those that stay on with PelAir I wish them all the best for it's not so much about the employer it's the enjoyment of flying the most challenging at times tasks imaginable:-)
Wmk2
One day I would love to know why thru the FOI act as to why the RFDS lost it but hey we are talking about a Govt contract here & simple employees who never really get appreciated at times.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank my college's those whom read these pages it has been the most wonderful 10 yrs in the service & I'll have many war stories to tell as the years pass by:-) I know that it was the best job that I ever had
To those that stay on with PelAir I wish them all the best for it's not so much about the employer it's the enjoyment of flying the most challenging at times tasks imaginable:-)
Wmk2
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A big cattle station??
Wally. Victoria is only a little bigger than a decent cattle station, and has lots of bitumen and runway lights.
However these days governments will not build many big hospitals away from capital cities, so they have to provide good airmedical services. You blokes did provide an essential service, and I understand when you say you got great satisfaction from your work. I believe you had good reason to.
But the awarding of big money ontracts etc is a wierd and wonderful world that hardly anyone understands. (some pretend to).
It is common for govts etc to have to get three quotes for contracts/charter flights etc, and I remember a long time ago, one organisation that had three AOC's. I was puzzled because one of them was only for a C182 which hardly ever flew.
But they could give three quotes (All from the same office) and win lots of work that no other ompanies knew about. The three quotes rule was satisfied. For a long time they had cheap pilots too.
(This was not the RFDS)
The "high level" negotiations are oftem mysterious.
I wish you well, and hope you find similar, rewarding work.
However these days governments will not build many big hospitals away from capital cities, so they have to provide good airmedical services. You blokes did provide an essential service, and I understand when you say you got great satisfaction from your work. I believe you had good reason to.
But the awarding of big money ontracts etc is a wierd and wonderful world that hardly anyone understands. (some pretend to).
It is common for govts etc to have to get three quotes for contracts/charter flights etc, and I remember a long time ago, one organisation that had three AOC's. I was puzzled because one of them was only for a C182 which hardly ever flew.
But they could give three quotes (All from the same office) and win lots of work that no other ompanies knew about. The three quotes rule was satisfied. For a long time they had cheap pilots too.
(This was not the RFDS)
The "high level" negotiations are oftem mysterious.
I wish you well, and hope you find similar, rewarding work.
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very good training department, and the Bar is set high. Really sharpens your skills up, and the HOTAC is a legend. Hopefully he is still there!
Busy roster, as they seem to always be short of drivers, so you work hard. Plenty of overtime opportunities and extra cash to be had. The money is ok. Overtime rate could improve some. Great machines, all identical P21 glass. Engineering dept are awesome and all machines are well kept.
Night shifts can be tough on the body, and the single pilot flying can be challenging, but very rewarding in the same token. Make sure you have completed your ATP subjects or life will be hard, as AV won't budge on not having them, even if you well exceed all the other experience requirements.
All in all a great experience, and something I would return to one day.
