Qantas Buying into Network?
Mince, by buying in they are not starting from scratch. It is no big deal to add another similar-capacity type to an existing AOC. And why? See post #7. Eastern/Sunstate pilot conditions are far too good for those cowboys in the wild wild west.
Mach E, So are you suggesting qantas want to spend $100 000 000 just to screw a few pilots over? Wow that's a pretty big pineapple!
I'd suggest it's more the fact they need the facilities to operate from. Hangers, offices and a place to park a few so to speak. Perth is pretty congested these days and it makes plenty of sense.
I wonder if they'll be able to afford to paint those 120's now
I wonder if they'll be able to afford to paint those 120's now
The $100 million wouldnt be just for the aeroplanes. In that you have the hangers, terminal, parking, ramp space (more than you could get at skippers) and most importantly, the current contracts that network has (which there are quite a few of).
If you go back only a few years, skywest was only the size that network is at the moment. Now look at them. The only reason Network isnt expanding (which it could easily do btw) is the owner wants out and wants to retire. So getting into debt doesnt look appealing to any potential buyers.
Lets look at who QF could buy out in Perth.
Skywest - too big and expensive and is in bed with VB.
Alliance - although not as big as skywest in the west, they do have bases around the country. So as before, they also will be too big and expensive, but also keep in mind that QF want to get into the West and not inherit whatever else alliance has around the country.
Cobham - too big & expensive.
Maroomba - No high capacity AOC & the place is a joke. I need not say more on this one.
Skippers - too expensive compared to Network. In addition they have no ramp space and QF will also be buying metros and conquest which it doesnt want.
If QF dont buy into the mining sector in WA, I dare say that it would cost more than $100 million to setup an operation from scratch. Dont forget that the biggest problem also is that there isnt any space left at perth airport for another operator to setup shop.
A few of us got talking and this is purely speculation on our part, but we think that the so called "clapped out" F100 would stay (and get more of them). The reason being, aeroplanes such as the 717, 737, A320 etc. are just to big and heavy to get in and out of the airstrips that the F100 goes to. The biggest problem for them is their ACN/PCN. Bigger types might be introduced, but the F100 would stay.
On the prop side of things, expect the bras to be gone
.
Q300's are only fractionally slower than the bras but can carry more pax. Q400's would also be on the cards, but not right away. Along with these new types, expect to see cadets bashing around the sky in the west.
FYI folks, this take-over may not happen. The only reason anyone knows about it is because it got leaked in the Fin Review. Its still early days and a contract hasnt been signed. So any rumors about announcements are 100% not accurate. It could be 1-6 months before we hear anything.
I personally think that in the long run, this is going to be a bad thing for the guys/gals at network and will drive down conditions in the industry for everyone. Hope I'm wrong.
If you go back only a few years, skywest was only the size that network is at the moment. Now look at them. The only reason Network isnt expanding (which it could easily do btw) is the owner wants out and wants to retire. So getting into debt doesnt look appealing to any potential buyers.
Lets look at who QF could buy out in Perth.
Skywest - too big and expensive and is in bed with VB.
Alliance - although not as big as skywest in the west, they do have bases around the country. So as before, they also will be too big and expensive, but also keep in mind that QF want to get into the West and not inherit whatever else alliance has around the country.
Cobham - too big & expensive.
Maroomba - No high capacity AOC & the place is a joke. I need not say more on this one.
Skippers - too expensive compared to Network. In addition they have no ramp space and QF will also be buying metros and conquest which it doesnt want.
If QF dont buy into the mining sector in WA, I dare say that it would cost more than $100 million to setup an operation from scratch. Dont forget that the biggest problem also is that there isnt any space left at perth airport for another operator to setup shop.
A few of us got talking and this is purely speculation on our part, but we think that the so called "clapped out" F100 would stay (and get more of them). The reason being, aeroplanes such as the 717, 737, A320 etc. are just to big and heavy to get in and out of the airstrips that the F100 goes to. The biggest problem for them is their ACN/PCN. Bigger types might be introduced, but the F100 would stay.
On the prop side of things, expect the bras to be gone
.Q300's are only fractionally slower than the bras but can carry more pax. Q400's would also be on the cards, but not right away. Along with these new types, expect to see cadets bashing around the sky in the west.
FYI folks, this take-over may not happen. The only reason anyone knows about it is because it got leaked in the Fin Review. Its still early days and a contract hasnt been signed. So any rumors about announcements are 100% not accurate. It could be 1-6 months before we hear anything.
I personally think that in the long run, this is going to be a bad thing for the guys/gals at network and will drive down conditions in the industry for everyone. Hope I'm wrong.
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Captain Claret, to answer your question the Q400's aren't approved for gravel strips (by choice of the company mind you). The boffins in Flight Operations are are too precious about their new toys and wont allow them to head into unprepared strips.
Although I have a question for Lemel...if QF wouldn't buy Maroomba because they don't have high capacity on their AOC, why would they want to buy Network who dont have RPT on theirs? Or would QF just want Network's FIFO work?
Fuel-Off
Although I have a question for Lemel...if QF wouldn't buy Maroomba because they don't have high capacity on their AOC, why would they want to buy Network who dont have RPT on theirs? Or would QF just want Network's FIFO work?
Fuel-Off
Mince, of course no company would sink 100 million into just screwing over a few pilots. But if the rumour is true, no way will they use east coast crews on this, other than for the obvious start-up check and training. Driving down aircrew (not just pilots) costs is very much part of the QF game plan. Lemel's excellent analysis on their other reasons for interest in Network is probably very close to the mark. Having that ramp space is a very big factor.
Adding RPT to a hi-cap AOC is not difficult if the basic company structure is sound. If not, I guess that's where some of the 100 mill will go.
Adding RPT to a hi-cap AOC is not difficult if the basic company structure is sound. If not, I guess that's where some of the 100 mill will go.
Fuel-off
You will find that getting a high capacity AOC is a huge undertaking with all the company restucturing, paper work, engineering etc that need to be looked at and at the required standard. I guess CASA may look at the company check and training standards for the pilots also.
Once you have a high capacity AOC, its not that difficult to get RPT added to it (dont get me wrong it is quite an involved process, but nothing when compared to getting you initial high capacity AOC issued, which Network have got).
One would imagine that getting an RPT AOC, if QF were to buy Network, would not be a huge issue considering QF's primary business is RPT flying. Make no mistake, if this buy out is successful, QF will expand into the FIFO market, but additionally will set up RPT routes to go up againts skywest and skippers once the routes are deregulated.
You will find that getting a high capacity AOC is a huge undertaking with all the company restucturing, paper work, engineering etc that need to be looked at and at the required standard. I guess CASA may look at the company check and training standards for the pilots also.
Once you have a high capacity AOC, its not that difficult to get RPT added to it (dont get me wrong it is quite an involved process, but nothing when compared to getting you initial high capacity AOC issued, which Network have got).
One would imagine that getting an RPT AOC, if QF were to buy Network, would not be a huge issue considering QF's primary business is RPT flying. Make no mistake, if this buy out is successful, QF will expand into the FIFO market, but additionally will set up RPT routes to go up againts skywest and skippers once the routes are deregulated.
Stupid question maybe, but wouldn't QANTAS already have a high capacity AOC? Why would they need to buy another company purely on the basis of their AOC?
Couldn't Qantas just buy whoever (with best ramp space/hangers/contracts/whatevers) and import their AOC?
Couldn't Qantas just buy whoever (with best ramp space/hangers/contracts/whatevers) and import their AOC?
Stupid question maybe, but wouldn't QANTAS already have a high capacity AOC? Why would they need to buy another company purely on the basis of their AOC?
Couldn't Qantas just buy whoever (with best ramp space/hangers/contracts/whatevers) and import their AOC?
Couldn't Qantas just buy whoever (with best ramp space/hangers/contracts/whatevers) and import their AOC?
Network will become the Sunstate/Eastern for western operations and when the Cobham contract runs its due course, Network will take over.
Good thing for the Network guys that are there now, particularly if they hire a heap of new Pilots as they will be high on the seniority list. Bad for others who want to come from over east, as they will start at the bottom.
