IFR EFB options post iPad
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IFR EFB options post iPad
I'm interested in the opinion of IFR pilots who have experience with EFB's.
Seeing how good my wife's Kindle is; plus a review of the Solid FX8 started me down the track of looking at all again. Then I got more serious when Jepp released the iPad app. A mate bought a tablet PC which has moving map, which is very impressive (especially during IFR approaches), but it requires a stylus which can be cumbersome in flight and I'm sure the page zooming & page changing is more clunky than iPad will be.
There was a good post about EFB's a while ago, but it was pre-iPad and possibly before the multi touch screen mini notebook class of devices became readily available.
It seems to me that there are currently 3 options, but each has its own weaknesses:
1. Ipad. You know it’s going to be good, but really a bit bigger than you’d prefer, can’t print and doesn’t have moving map capability and doesn’t currently have neat mounting hardware. Reviews suggest that its pretty awkward to mount anywhere in the cockpit. When I travel, I’ll still need a laptop to do & print flight plans (I use Command Flight Planner), print unforeseen charts, etc.
2. Solid FX8. Looks like a really neat thing, but it’s going to be AUD$1500 landed, probably with 10% GST added by customs. It’s not a backlit screen which may or may not be a night issue. It will accept an external GPS , it will print but it won’t run any other programmes (eg email, internet for weather). So, it looks like I'll still need a laptop as well.
3. Tablet PC like the Asus eePC ASUS eee PC T101MT Black Tablet Netbook Intel Atom N450 1.66GHz with Win 7 Home Pre Its $850. It will run other stuff, print, is a nice size, but the multi-touch screen gets some negative comments and you know it’s going to be nowhere as near as good as the iPad. Might escape me from taking a laptop on trips. Requires an external USB internet stick, so it’s going to be more cumbersome for weather, email etc. than the ipad. And I'm not fully convinced that the screen resolution will be good enough to fly approaches directly off the screen, but should be small enough to yoke mount (unlike iPad). On paper its got more than enough battery life for a day's flying.
My image is that I'll print charts for my commonly used approaches and keep them in a 1 inch jepp binder plus print charts for a flight (Jepp view seems to assemble charts required for a trip so they can be printed quite well). The EFB would be then used for enroute tracking (moving map) and a backup for unplanned diversions. Since it will have the airport directory, etc in it I figure that having something that is nearly instant on is important for looking up re-fuelers numbers, AWIS numbers, etc.
I'd be interested in the comments form those with flight experience with these things.
Seeing how good my wife's Kindle is; plus a review of the Solid FX8 started me down the track of looking at all again. Then I got more serious when Jepp released the iPad app. A mate bought a tablet PC which has moving map, which is very impressive (especially during IFR approaches), but it requires a stylus which can be cumbersome in flight and I'm sure the page zooming & page changing is more clunky than iPad will be.
There was a good post about EFB's a while ago, but it was pre-iPad and possibly before the multi touch screen mini notebook class of devices became readily available.
It seems to me that there are currently 3 options, but each has its own weaknesses:
1. Ipad. You know it’s going to be good, but really a bit bigger than you’d prefer, can’t print and doesn’t have moving map capability and doesn’t currently have neat mounting hardware. Reviews suggest that its pretty awkward to mount anywhere in the cockpit. When I travel, I’ll still need a laptop to do & print flight plans (I use Command Flight Planner), print unforeseen charts, etc.
2. Solid FX8. Looks like a really neat thing, but it’s going to be AUD$1500 landed, probably with 10% GST added by customs. It’s not a backlit screen which may or may not be a night issue. It will accept an external GPS , it will print but it won’t run any other programmes (eg email, internet for weather). So, it looks like I'll still need a laptop as well.
3. Tablet PC like the Asus eePC ASUS eee PC T101MT Black Tablet Netbook Intel Atom N450 1.66GHz with Win 7 Home Pre Its $850. It will run other stuff, print, is a nice size, but the multi-touch screen gets some negative comments and you know it’s going to be nowhere as near as good as the iPad. Might escape me from taking a laptop on trips. Requires an external USB internet stick, so it’s going to be more cumbersome for weather, email etc. than the ipad. And I'm not fully convinced that the screen resolution will be good enough to fly approaches directly off the screen, but should be small enough to yoke mount (unlike iPad). On paper its got more than enough battery life for a day's flying.
My image is that I'll print charts for my commonly used approaches and keep them in a 1 inch jepp binder plus print charts for a flight (Jepp view seems to assemble charts required for a trip so they can be printed quite well). The EFB would be then used for enroute tracking (moving map) and a backup for unplanned diversions. Since it will have the airport directory, etc in it I figure that having something that is nearly instant on is important for looking up re-fuelers numbers, AWIS numbers, etc.
I'd be interested in the comments form those with flight experience with these things.
With the ipad, you may want to wait there are rumours floating of a 7" screen Ipad to be released.. Also anything the ipad can do, the iphone can do on a 3" screen.. The ipod touch can do everything except GPS on the same size screen as the iphone..
Anyway, don't forget you're not supposed to buy the "A" model of anything, So the second Gen ipads will be improved upon quicker than any of the windows based tablets..
Something running Andriod on the other hand would be nice!
Anyway, don't forget you're not supposed to buy the "A" model of anything, So the second Gen ipads will be improved upon quicker than any of the windows based tablets..
Something running Andriod on the other hand would be nice!
I have JeppView and FliteDeck with moving map and georeferenced Appr plates etc running on a Motion Computing LS800 tablet computer. Great bit of gear! Solid state HD will operate well in the Flightlevels. Daylight screen is easily viewable in sunlight.
Can also run WAC's on Fugawi, Champagne Flight Planner, W&B program, NAIPS, Weatherzone etc with USB G3 dongle thingie. Good for inflite PpruNing and Skyping!
Dr
Can also run WAC's on Fugawi, Champagne Flight Planner, W&B program, NAIPS, Weatherzone etc with USB G3 dongle thingie. Good for inflite PpruNing and Skyping!
Dr
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Yeah, I got one of them too! And its a real PC for printing or other features away from the plane.
Anybody recognise the good looking bloke on the left of that pic?
Anybody recognise the good looking bloke on the left of that pic?
Folks,
If you are going to fly IFR, check out the regs. very carefully ---- the approvals for an EFB are quite complex and demanding. Notwithstanding you can buy some great over the counter systems in the US, that are advertised as EFBs at quite cheap prices.
The EFBs used by some airlines are seriously expensive.
Even for VFR, it is not really clear, in a regulatory sense, that using WACs or Jepps. loaded on a PC or similar satisfies the need for charts. Don't bother asking CASA, you will get as many answers as the people you ask the question.
Given the sate of our regs., a cockpit ( sorry, flight station, cockpit is sexist) isn't going to be a paperless office any time soon.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Obviously, but I will say it anyway, the above comments do not refer to Garmin or similar TSO gear that you load up with the monthly Jepp. ARAC amendment.
If you are going to fly IFR, check out the regs. very carefully ---- the approvals for an EFB are quite complex and demanding. Notwithstanding you can buy some great over the counter systems in the US, that are advertised as EFBs at quite cheap prices.
The EFBs used by some airlines are seriously expensive.
Even for VFR, it is not really clear, in a regulatory sense, that using WACs or Jepps. loaded on a PC or similar satisfies the need for charts. Don't bother asking CASA, you will get as many answers as the people you ask the question.
Given the sate of our regs., a cockpit ( sorry, flight station, cockpit is sexist) isn't going to be a paperless office any time soon.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Obviously, but I will say it anyway, the above comments do not refer to Garmin or similar TSO gear that you load up with the monthly Jepp. ARAC amendment.
Anybody recognise the good looking bloke on the left of that pic?
According to the name on his headset, it is Dave Clarke.
Mate of mine was looking at this when they were speccing up a Hawker850.
AC120-76A is the advisory circular that gives all the info required. Special note on section 9 Risk Mitigation for EFB systems.
AC120-76A is the advisory circular that gives all the info required. Special note on section 9 Risk Mitigation for EFB systems.
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HE is quick to point that out now isn't he! 
We were, dodging a rain shower and well.........the photo would not have been as effective had the slope been higher either
J
We were, dodging a rain shower and well.........the photo would not have been as effective had the slope been higher either
J
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Your pretty chocka on extras there, don't find it a little cumbersome?
"No no the Tablet supplements the steam-driven dials which backs up the hand-held which is only there incase the 430 fails..."
"No no the Tablet supplements the steam-driven dials which backs up the hand-held which is only there incase the 430 fails..."
Thread Starter
This is the new stuff I've learned:
Hard drives aren't rated above 10,000ft. They rely on an airgap between the platter and read arm which is generated by the spinning platter. Without that the arm touches the platter and its all over. So given that aircraft can be bumpy and Australia has density altitudes above ISA, I think it rules out HDD devices.
I also found a nice review from a girl who bought an IPad to do graphic arts. She ditched it in favour of a Motion LS800 tablet because casual touches of her palm on the ipad were screwing up her artwork. In the cockpit I think that means the iPad has a danger off changing map size, location or page in flight. So, overall, I think the iPad fails too.
This is leaving something like the Asus T91MT tablet (which has an SSD) or something like FTDK's Motion tablet. Either of these would allow me to leave my laptop at home for 2-3 day trips and use the tablet for email / limited report writing / flight planning / etc.
Dealing with an earlier post about legality, I'd say first of all that more and more I am becoming convinced that CASA is not taking safety (or at least GA safety) as a prime concern. I think I'd rather do what is safe (potentially guided by the FAA who seem a reasonably sorted about EFB's) than worry about what CASA might or might not do after it confers with lawyers and non flying bureaucrats.
But, its my intention to keep paper charts as my primary IFR reference. Its one of the reason's I'd like the EFB to be able to print to my portable, bluetooth HP 470b printer. I understand that the Jeppview software has a feature where you can identify commonly used airports and it will flag when the charts change and you need to print new copies. I envisage that I'll flick my 2 x 2 inch Jepp binders and keep the 1 inch binder as a trip folder and for my most commonly used airports and IFR charts.
I've finally cancelled my ERSA subscription, because while the Jepp airport directory is less sexy, its finally dawned on me that it contains no less information than ERSA. So, now I'll need to either learn to deal with it all off the tablet or re-instate ERSA. FDTK, what stuff do you carry now that you use the tablet?
Hard drives aren't rated above 10,000ft. They rely on an airgap between the platter and read arm which is generated by the spinning platter. Without that the arm touches the platter and its all over. So given that aircraft can be bumpy and Australia has density altitudes above ISA, I think it rules out HDD devices.
I also found a nice review from a girl who bought an IPad to do graphic arts. She ditched it in favour of a Motion LS800 tablet because casual touches of her palm on the ipad were screwing up her artwork. In the cockpit I think that means the iPad has a danger off changing map size, location or page in flight. So, overall, I think the iPad fails too.
This is leaving something like the Asus T91MT tablet (which has an SSD) or something like FTDK's Motion tablet. Either of these would allow me to leave my laptop at home for 2-3 day trips and use the tablet for email / limited report writing / flight planning / etc.
Dealing with an earlier post about legality, I'd say first of all that more and more I am becoming convinced that CASA is not taking safety (or at least GA safety) as a prime concern. I think I'd rather do what is safe (potentially guided by the FAA who seem a reasonably sorted about EFB's) than worry about what CASA might or might not do after it confers with lawyers and non flying bureaucrats.
But, its my intention to keep paper charts as my primary IFR reference. Its one of the reason's I'd like the EFB to be able to print to my portable, bluetooth HP 470b printer. I understand that the Jeppview software has a feature where you can identify commonly used airports and it will flag when the charts change and you need to print new copies. I envisage that I'll flick my 2 x 2 inch Jepp binders and keep the 1 inch binder as a trip folder and for my most commonly used airports and IFR charts.
I've finally cancelled my ERSA subscription, because while the Jepp airport directory is less sexy, its finally dawned on me that it contains no less information than ERSA. So, now I'll need to either learn to deal with it all off the tablet or re-instate ERSA. FDTK, what stuff do you carry now that you use the tablet?
FDTK, what stuff do you carry now that you use the tablet?
I rarely fly other than on an IFR plan.
I subscribe to paper Jepps as well as JeppView and FliteDeck. I haven't bothered with ERSA for a few years now - you can look it up on the internet anyway - and yes, I can usually do that in flight if needed.
I split my Jepp plates into Qld, NSW, Vic and Tas in a 1 x 2" binder and NT, SA and WA in another 1 x 2" binder. I only carry the latter if headed that way. I have all of my commonly used charts in 1 x 1" binder - which I carry up front in the pocket in front of the pilot/front pax seats.
The Jepp binders are in the flightbag on the floor behind the front pax seat - 90% of my flying is solo or one pax. Otherwise it is down the back - where a back seat pax can reach it if needed.
I carry all of the Oz WACs in a bag in the luggage compartment and only carry paper VTC and VNC on the rare occassions that I need them.
Don't know why I carry them - Can't remember the last time I looked at a paper WAC.
I have all of the Oz WACs, ERC, TAC, VTC, VNC in the tablet.
I normally fly approaches with the chart up in FliteDeck on the tablet - but usually have the paper plate handy if the appr looks like being serious.
I have two LS800 tablets - but no, I don't carry both with me. The older one has a standard HD. I have had it to 18,000' with no problems. The newer tablet has a solid state HD - and that is the one that I use all the time now.
Dr
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Agreed Akro. I am pretty sure I have a HDD in mine, easy to change if it goes U/S but I am a bit more gentle with things than the DR.
I keep Jepps in full, and asmall printer. Really not a problem and with in flight Next g coverage you get weather and all the usual services......even pprune, but I am not really up for that yet.
I keep Jepps in full, and asmall printer. Really not a problem and with in flight Next g coverage you get weather and all the usual services......even pprune, but I am not really up for that yet.