Cirrus 4 sale
Cirri appear to have a stall/spin problem.
The chute won't save you from that!
The chute won't save you from that!
YouTube - BRS Emergency Parachute test
Actually any aircraft that is unable to recover from this condition doesn't get certified, hence the chute actually does save you from that. QED.
Bo's also stall and spin. It was actually a serious question. How many fatalities are included in the "steadily increasing kill rate", as you so dramatically put it?
.............now now 'jaba' why would I want a chute in a safe aeroplane in the first place?
The way I figure it is if I pass out whilst airborne then I won't feel/know anything anyway & the rest are screwed either way
As for the Airbus? Well me 'tinks that if that airframe got down to mechanical law yr essentially screwed as well & any chute would only take you to yr demise a little slower
"MR" I don't think anyone needs to go to those lengths to find out about the toy plane Cirrus. It's juts another plane & if anyone was that serious other than being curious ( as I am) to want one then some proper learning would be in order well beyond these few pages
Wmk2, looking to get a boat license down here!!!!
Somebody please turn off the water up above!
The way I figure it is if I pass out whilst airborne then I won't feel/know anything anyway & the rest are screwed either wayAs for the Airbus? Well me 'tinks that if that airframe got down to mechanical law yr essentially screwed as well & any chute would only take you to yr demise a little slower
"MR" I don't think anyone needs to go to those lengths to find out about the toy plane Cirrus. It's juts another plane & if anyone was that serious other than being curious ( as I am) to want one then some proper learning would be in order well beyond these few pages
Wmk2, looking to get a boat license down here!!!!
Somebody please turn off the water up above!
Actually any aircraft that is unable to recover from this condition doesn't get certified, hence the chute actually does save you from that.
See how you get on.
Dr
Probably about as well as you would having done it in a Bonanza.
Point being????
Still waiting for an answer on your fatality statistics.
Point being????
Still waiting for an answer on your fatality statistics.
1 in approximately every 130 Cirrus planes have crashed killing at least 1 person on board. That’s a sobering statistic. 1 in 130.
With about 1.44 fatal accidents per 100,000 flight hours during their lifetime, the Cirrus planes are slightly higher (but statistically insignificant) than the average Single-Engine piston, which stands at 1.41.
The big problem is that you’d expect that Cirrus planes would definitely stand out and have a signifcantly lower fatal accident rate. After all, the Cirrus planes have a lot going for them:
- Significantly newer fleet compared to average age of GA planes
- CAPS Safety System (parachute)
- Modern Design for Safety and Control
- State of the Art Avionics
The combination of novice pilots and a fast airplane resulted in a mournful accident record that was reflected in high insurance rates and recurrent training requirements similar to what you'd find on a twin-engine plane or pressurized single.
Still waiting for an answer on your fatality statistics.
A clever statistician can make the data say whatever he desires!
5% of the the entire Concorde fleet have crashed! That is horrendous - perhaps only surpased by the Space Shuttle fleet where 40% of the fleet has been lost - in only 100+ flights!
PS: Interestingly Retard Vehicles have a very good safety record - but don't tell Jaba!
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 18th Aug 2010 at 12:08.
I remember reading an article that said the safety statistics associated with these were due to overconfident inexperienced pilots charging off into conditions they otherwise might have had the good sense to avoid, safe in the knowledge they can pull the big red handle if things get too hairy. 
That said i can see a lot of value in recovery chutes for GA.....provided the pilot has spent some time in an aircraft not equipped with them.
are there any other certified aircraft with recovery chutes?
What are Cirrus made out of? is it Fibreglass or Carbon fibre? I Imagine that they should survive a dunk in the water pretty well provided they werent damaged to badly on the initial impact. Structure that is, not engine or avionics.
That said i can see a lot of value in recovery chutes for GA.....provided the pilot has spent some time in an aircraft not equipped with them.
are there any other certified aircraft with recovery chutes?
What are Cirrus made out of? is it Fibreglass or Carbon fibre? I Imagine that they should survive a dunk in the water pretty well provided they werent damaged to badly on the initial impact. Structure that is, not engine or avionics.
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+1 for BRS systems after last nights stunt plane crash where the wing fell off.
I can't see any major issues in this thread, it seems moderately factual. That's the trouble when the distributors and or agents get involved in threads.
I can't see any major issues in this thread, it seems moderately factual. That's the trouble when the distributors and or agents get involved in threads.
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WallyMK2 - 'Caps pin removed' is the first checklist item,
FTDK - The cirrus has an extremly docile stall characteristics due to its 'cuffed wing'
The inside part of the wing is at a greater angle of incidence than the outer section, hence the inner part stalls first and the outside section keeps flying. I have personnaly done climbing, turning power on stalls, 45 to 60 degree turn stalls and and still no wing drop or spin develops. This feature was speciffcally designed for the " 500ft turning final, letting to much speed wash off situation". The chute deployment of VH SLS on 24/12/09 was done @ 440 ft AMSL.
Biggles - Yes you can apply to join the Caterpillar club after CAPS deployment.
VH XXX - will now go back into my dark hole and never post again ! lol
FTDK - The cirrus has an extremly docile stall characteristics due to its 'cuffed wing'
The inside part of the wing is at a greater angle of incidence than the outer section, hence the inner part stalls first and the outside section keeps flying. I have personnaly done climbing, turning power on stalls, 45 to 60 degree turn stalls and and still no wing drop or spin develops. This feature was speciffcally designed for the " 500ft turning final, letting to much speed wash off situation". The chute deployment of VH SLS on 24/12/09 was done @ 440 ft AMSL.
Biggles - Yes you can apply to join the Caterpillar club after CAPS deployment.
VH XXX - will now go back into my dark hole and never post again ! lol
Last edited by CirrusSR22T; 19th Aug 2010 at 01:07.
SR22T" don't go it's refreshing to have factual stuff posted here about a toy plane
The 'cuffed' wing you talk about is pretty common in a lot of A/C and is know an 'wash-out' where the outer part of the wing is presented to the airflow at a lower AoA rather than the inner part (depends which kindergarten you went to!) & gives the whole wing a 'twisted' appearance. The AC50 is a good Eg of wash-out you would swear the plane is bent!
I had a sticky beak inside one of those toy planes a while ago,too much fancy stuff in there for this old codger Looks slippery enuf, would be ballistic with the gear tucked away.
The closest thing I've operated made of fiberglass is my canoe, which I might add I will need very shortly if this damn rain don't stop !
Wmk2
The 'cuffed' wing you talk about is pretty common in a lot of A/C and is know an 'wash-out' where the outer part of the wing is presented to the airflow at a lower AoA rather than the inner part (depends which kindergarten you went to!) & gives the whole wing a 'twisted' appearance.
The AC50 is a good Eg of wash-out you would swear the plane is bent!I had a sticky beak inside one of those toy planes a while ago,too much fancy stuff in there for this old codger
Looks slippery enuf, would be ballistic with the gear tucked away. The closest thing I've operated made of fiberglass is my canoe, which I might add I will need very shortly if this damn rain don't stop !
Wmk2
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Forkie says the same thing flying the Retard Vehicle...... but for me ask me anything about whats going on and I can give you the answer almost without looking for it.
The human brain adapts to these things and after a while its as if you never knew any other way!
The human brain adapts to these things and after a while its as if you never knew any other way!
Cirrus,
I'll second Wally. Washout is one of the most basic principles known to aviation and has been around for eons.
The inside part of the wing is at a greater angle of incidence than the outer section, hence the inner part stalls first and the outside section keeps flying. I have personnaly done climbing, turning power on stalls, 45 to 60 degree turn stalls and and still no wing drop or spin develops. This feature was speciffcally designed for the " 500ft turning final, letting to much speed wash off situation".
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Agreed , wasn't saying it was Cirrus who came up with the idea, (apoligies if it seemed that way) more to highlight the fact the Stall is very docile. As stated many aircraft have this feature, also the Cessna 350 & 400 Corvalis also have a 'cuffed' wing.
, wasn't saying it was Cirrus who came up with the idea, (apoligies if it seemed that way) more to highlight the fact the Stall is very docile. As stated many aircraft have this feature, also the Cessna 350 & 400 Corvalis also have a 'cuffed' wing.
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I try to avoid flying the Cirrus in a way that will stall it and or cause the criteria for chute deployment to be met.
It's a good philosophy for any aircraft and has kept me alive thus far!
Not so much an issue in the 22, but if you heavily load a 20 and pulled off prematurely you could bring yourself to stall conditions very quickly, particularly on final if you let it drop below 70 knots.
(Don't go anywhere SR22T, you are most welcome here)
It's a good philosophy for any aircraft and has kept me alive thus far!
Not so much an issue in the 22, but if you heavily load a 20 and pulled off prematurely you could bring yourself to stall conditions very quickly, particularly on final if you let it drop below 70 knots.
(Don't go anywhere SR22T, you are most welcome here)
"22" I had a laugh at yr analogy of glass reading, woof woof I recently spent a little time in front of some 'bus' glass & when I went back to flying the old steam driven Beechy i thought God who put this round dial stuff all over the shop?
"XXX" true what you say but that goes for any A/C that's of similar high performance. I remember the C210 fully loaded on final if you where getting a little behind the drag curve it took a lot of horses to get back ahead of it. The PA31 is the perfect Eg of getting behind the drag curve 'cause being close to max weight on App you needed a LOT of Gee Gee's to not let it spoil yr day forever!
I would imagine slippery planes such as the Cirrus & to some extend the Mooney would be at times just the opposite. A little overshoot with a few extra kts thrown in for mum & the kids on final & watch the beast stay in ground effect 'till the rwy was no more!
Off thread a little here but worth a mention. Some years ago (many actually) up in TW there was a Mooney doing paper runs out to the boon docks when the pilot landed down wind on a grass strip (due commercial pressure probably) ................result? One busted plane after going thru a farm fence & a ditch, he said after wards he simply couldn't bet the damn thing slowed up! Did they not put spoilers on latter Mooney's?
Wmk2
I recently spent a little time in front of some 'bus' glass & when I went back to flying the old steam driven Beechy i thought God who put this round dial stuff all over the shop?"XXX" true what you say but that goes for any A/C that's of similar high performance. I remember the C210 fully loaded on final if you where getting a little behind the drag curve it took a lot of horses to get back ahead of it. The PA31 is the perfect Eg of getting behind the drag curve 'cause being close to max weight on App you needed a LOT of Gee Gee's to not let it spoil yr day forever!
I would imagine slippery planes such as the Cirrus & to some extend the Mooney would be at times just the opposite. A little overshoot with a few extra kts thrown in for mum & the kids on final & watch the beast stay in ground effect 'till the rwy was no more!
Off thread a little here but worth a mention. Some years ago (many actually) up in TW there was a Mooney doing paper runs out to the boon docks when the pilot landed down wind on a grass strip (due commercial pressure probably) ................result? One busted plane after going thru a farm fence & a ditch, he said after wards he simply couldn't bet the damn thing slowed up! Did they not put spoilers on latter Mooney's?
Wmk2
Statistics? Yes, that is a whole other story, isn't it?
A clever statistician can make the data say whatever he desires!
A clever statistician can make the data say whatever he desires!
OK, stall/spin a Cirri turning onto final appr at 500' - then pull the chute!
Anyone?
If your skills are woefull enough to let the aircraft get to this state, you really shouldn't be flying.
I really was asking out of general interest on the accident figures. Don't think there have been any fatalities in Australia involving this aircraft. (Anyone??)
The distributors are really quite thorough in their post sales service, including 50 hrs of dual instruction on the type (I believe). Probably a different story when someone with more money than sense jumps into something like this straight out of a PPL with no familiarisation.
A little miffed as to why you seem so against (BRS) something that provides a final buffer against something such as a mid-air structural failure? Maybe Beech need to offer a retrofit STC?
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You should get one installed on that dual kero burner B200 Wally.....ya never know