Australian Pilots with Experience
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Australian Pilots with Experience
Dear Pilots
I am staring this thread to know whats the experience Level of Australian Pilots out there in the holding file of these airlines.
Please reply so that we can understand the games played by J*.
To start I have Full Australian ATPL,16 years in the Industry,Multi Crew experienced and 1000hrs jet Time amd total more than 3000 hrs.
I have been told that there are more experience in the market.
I cant buy that argument because if for eg J* to take me
They will have to pay me the starting FO wage ....I would say 85k
In the old days I would be an assest to the companies as they would see they can get a command in say 4 to 5 years .
Now that I am a burden for them as if they can get cheap labour from the market on the basis of Junior FOs and even now overseas pilots
so please feel free to input in this
I am staring this thread to know whats the experience Level of Australian Pilots out there in the holding file of these airlines.
Please reply so that we can understand the games played by J*.
To start I have Full Australian ATPL,16 years in the Industry,Multi Crew experienced and 1000hrs jet Time amd total more than 3000 hrs.
I have been told that there are more experience in the market.
I cant buy that argument because if for eg J* to take me
They will have to pay me the starting FO wage ....I would say 85k
In the old days I would be an assest to the companies as they would see they can get a command in say 4 to 5 years .
Now that I am a burden for them as if they can get cheap labour from the market on the basis of Junior FOs and even now overseas pilots
so please feel free to input in this
OK I can play this game. In a hold pool for an Aussie airline with a Kiwi connection. I only do round figures now so 8000 hrs, 4000 part 121 Turboprop, 3000 Command in 5 countries. 20 years in the industry, 30 since I first stuffed up a log book entry. I too think they look for keen intelligent and fit young people-obviously running out of those
Jetstar would rather have young and cheap in the right seat. That way they get a few less expensive years out of the employee. If they had a minimum of ATPL with 2000hrs as copilots and paid accordingly, the overall wage bill would be higher than if they got a couple of cheap years out of him first. After all the seat is being filled either way.
Whilst relatively low, the pay isn't too bad for that age, especially for a first job. The carrot of a couple of pay rises as experience builds keeps the complaints down. A youngster probably won't have the same financial commitments as an older pilot and is better able to manage on a lower pay grade.
Paying copilots half of a captains wage gives the impression of a massive improvement on moving to the left seat. The fact that the captains pay isn't that fantastic anymore gets overlooked.
Whilst relatively low, the pay isn't too bad for that age, especially for a first job. The carrot of a couple of pay rises as experience builds keeps the complaints down. A youngster probably won't have the same financial commitments as an older pilot and is better able to manage on a lower pay grade.
Paying copilots half of a captains wage gives the impression of a massive improvement on moving to the left seat. The fact that the captains pay isn't that fantastic anymore gets overlooked.
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Recently heard of some people going through the Cadetship application. Some with 2000hrs plus. Had to pay $350 for the priviledge of the computer based skills test and get flights to Auckland. Out of 6, the 4 experienced pilots with hours and in their mid twenties were to told not suitable but the 2 with no experienced in early twenties were accepted for next stage. J* is all about signing up young naive folk so they can lock them for a $90 Grand dept straight out to be slowly paid back out of maybe 50k starting salary after your all trained and checked to line. A suckers game.
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Jetjockey
Hi
what you have said is also happened to my friends also.
We have to stop this at the start otherwise whats going to happen to pilots with expereince. we cant all pack our bags and go to other foreign countries .This is my country .This is where my family live .this is where i learned to fly this is where i like to bring my kids.
If these F...ing J* management try to do this where do we go.
Does anyone understand the seriousness of this issue.
we got to stop it
Guys please be united and lets work for a common outcome for the good of Aviation for all of us and for the future.
what you have said is also happened to my friends also.
We have to stop this at the start otherwise whats going to happen to pilots with expereince. we cant all pack our bags and go to other foreign countries .This is my country .This is where my family live .this is where i learned to fly this is where i like to bring my kids.
If these F...ing J* management try to do this where do we go.
Does anyone understand the seriousness of this issue.
we got to stop it
Guys please be united and lets work for a common outcome for the good of Aviation for all of us and for the future.
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Lunars
Forget it, its already done and dusted. I am 43 with 7000hrs TT, 5000 Turbo Prop command, 1800 night etc. I kept applying, had an offer from one and when the chips were down and I compared the package they offered to what i'm on now I let it go. The airlines have reduced the T & C's to the point that they are no longer viable for me.
Look what they make you give, your cash (endo), then you compromise your kids childhood by going wherever whenever, your wifes career by same. let em go perhaps one day it will come back to bite.
SN
Forget it, its already done and dusted. I am 43 with 7000hrs TT, 5000 Turbo Prop command, 1800 night etc. I kept applying, had an offer from one and when the chips were down and I compared the package they offered to what i'm on now I let it go. The airlines have reduced the T & C's to the point that they are no longer viable for me.
Look what they make you give, your cash (endo), then you compromise your kids childhood by going wherever whenever, your wifes career by same. let em go perhaps one day it will come back to bite.
SN
As for Jetstar NZ I was invited to interview along with a few others from the same company. We all got our calculators out and independently decided there was no point in attending an interview as we could not afford to work for them. Many others did the same I believe.
This is not a problem for them at FO level. But once the Captains head off the sandier pastures it becomes difficult for them to find FOs capable of upgrade. Often due to legal total time requirements rather than time on type or ability.
A particular problem with cadets. Also they are often not interested in taking a further bond to be promoted and leave at FO level. In the UK they are known as 'training airlines', they are the ones which often go broke which has occured often recently. The resulting crewing issues and operational chaos limit them greatly. Lets see how it goes downunder.
This is not a problem for them at FO level. But once the Captains head off the sandier pastures it becomes difficult for them to find FOs capable of upgrade. Often due to legal total time requirements rather than time on type or ability.
A particular problem with cadets. Also they are often not interested in taking a further bond to be promoted and leave at FO level. In the UK they are known as 'training airlines', they are the ones which often go broke which has occured often recently. The resulting crewing issues and operational chaos limit them greatly. Lets see how it goes downunder.
A particular problem with cadets. Also they are often not interested in taking a further bond to be promoted and leave at FO level.
They're still young enough to survive a 5-15 year wait for an upgrade at a major airline, and highly attractive to the recruiting department as well.
Total package wise, a Captain with a low cost is about the same as an F/O with BA, QF, CX, EK etc. Overall they should be well ahead financially at retirement with the majors.
Should they stick around for promotion and want to stay in the left seat with the next employer, things are a bit more limited. DECs not always hired or welcome in the better companies, and they don't have any wide body time in the log book. Contract positions, often far from home, with little chance of progression, may be all that's on offer.
Grab a permanent job with Emirates, joining as an F/O but B777 skipper in seven years vs upgrade at low cost, 2 years in the left seat and a renewable contract on the A320 with Vietnam Airlines. I know which option I'd take.
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Contract positions, often far from home, with little chance of progression, may be all that's on offer.
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My 2 cents worth.....
Event if J* provide young guys and girls opportunity to fly jets, and when these young wiper sniper complete their bond on wage sacrifice. When they decided to leave the Co, aiming for another with higher pay, unfortunately what they have done is set a T&C for other Co to follow. Basically you are back to where you started.
It is happing with our current Co.....B@%T^d..
.
really start to hate these industry....
Event if J* provide young guys and girls opportunity to fly jets, and when these young wiper sniper complete their bond on wage
sacrifice. When they decided to leave the Co, aiming for another with higher pay, unfortunately what they have done is set a T&C for other Co to follow. Basically you are back to where you started. It is happing with our current Co.....B@%T^d..
.really start to hate these industry....
