June 3rd is here!
Join Date: Dec 2007
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All this and the fella's up here in the NT only had to worry about being able to joining Base yet we where all confused as to if you can join base INVIRTED.... any thoughts?????
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
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Dangly
Class D is not a big deal.....geeez we all live with its harsh requirements elsewheer 
Its just the imposition on ops compared to the old GAAP.
For me its better actually, one rule set. But there is a flip side...
Was the flat earth society wrong and it all went well?
Good work ASA.
Not that hard really was it?
Good work ASA.
Not that hard really was it?
Its just the imposition on ops compared to the old GAAP.
For me its better actually, one rule set. But there is a flip side...
Don't mean to sound rude to the guys mentioning the Departure procedures but the material put up by CASA made it pretty clear whats expected for Departure reports.
"VFR aircraft departing a Class D CTR are not required to provide departure reports when exiting the CTR into Class G airspace. All other flights require a departure report as per AIP. This procedure will apply at ALL Class D aerodromes."
Fairly simple no?
"VFR aircraft departing a Class D CTR are not required to provide departure reports when exiting the CTR into Class G airspace. All other flights require a departure report as per AIP. This procedure will apply at ALL Class D aerodromes."
Fairly simple no?
That thing hauls along
The departure report out of a zone the size of bankstown is ridiculous.
I called the tower about it, they want it at 2 miles from BK. They also told me they dont want to hear it, they do absolutely nothing with it, however CASA requires it so we have to give it.
What a great and well thought out system, well done CASA. You have successfully changed nothing for VFR aircraft, and significantly slowed and complicated life for IFR aircraft at Bankstown.
Mission accomplished.
I called the tower about it, they want it at 2 miles from BK. They also told me they dont want to hear it, they do absolutely nothing with it, however CASA requires it so we have to give it.
What a great and well thought out system, well done CASA. You have successfully changed nothing for VFR aircraft, and significantly slowed and complicated life for IFR aircraft at Bankstown.
Mission accomplished.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Ando, was that you in the Citation X? it would need to be passed to approach before it starts to roll! 
That thing hauls along 
That thing hauls along
Join Date: Jun 2009
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d.U.S
hmmm, lets see how a weekend VFR or SVFR day goes 
The ATCO's will be applying the rules as given to them. Poor devils
You have successfully changed nothing for VFR aircraft,
The ATCO's will be applying the rules as given to them. Poor devils
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
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Joins on base and a 3 mile final are allowed, but not recommended by CASA!
Huh? Are CASA not responsible for regulating safety in aviation, why approve something if you are not willing to recommend it (ie: consider it unsafe)!
Also does anyone else have a problem with varying circuit heights? I fly a relatively high performance aircraft, where the visibilty down is almost non existant, it makes seeing aircraft who are conducting a circuit at a lower altitude impossible. This is why I always conduct a straight in approach where possible!
Does anyone who makes up these rules actually fly?
Huh? Are CASA not responsible for regulating safety in aviation, why approve something if you are not willing to recommend it (ie: consider it unsafe)!
Also does anyone else have a problem with varying circuit heights? I fly a relatively high performance aircraft, where the visibilty down is almost non existant, it makes seeing aircraft who are conducting a circuit at a lower altitude impossible. This is why I always conduct a straight in approach where possible!
Does anyone who makes up these rules actually fly?
Don't mean to sound rude to the guys mentioning the Departure procedures but the material put up by CASA made it pretty clear whats expected for Departure reports.
"VFR aircraft departing a Class D CTR are not required to provide departure reports when exiting the CTR into Class G airspace. All other flights require a departure report as per AIP. This procedure will apply at ALL Class D aerodromes."
Fairly simple no?
"VFR aircraft departing a Class D CTR are not required to provide departure reports when exiting the CTR into Class G airspace. All other flights require a departure report as per AIP. This procedure will apply at ALL Class D aerodromes."
Fairly simple no?
Does an IFR aircraft on a VFR Departure make a departure report??? If you say "yes" because it is still an IFR aircraft even though operating VFR, does that also mean that IFR aircraft on VFR Departures don't need to comply with all the requirements in ERSA which are expressed to apply to "VFR aircraft" (like departing the zone by extending one of the legs of the circuit)??? This should be consistently and clearly documented in AIP (not just in an 'elearning tutorial', which has no legal status at all - although the one they put together doesn't discuss this at all anyway).
How do you make the departure call and to whom do you make it if you're in a high performance IFR aircraft on a SID and have to call Departues before you've departed (in the sense required by AIP - over or abeam the airport, or on track with an allowance made in terms of time since you were over or abeam)?
The departure report out of a zone the size of bankstown is ridiculous.
And another question: when do you change frequency? AIP requires all aircraft to remain on tower until instructed to change, yet as far as I know (stand to be corrected) only IFR aircraft on the SID are being given instructions to change. (I don't have a problem with still doing it the old way - ie change without being instructed. In fact, I reckon it makes a lot of sense to avoid frequency congestion. That used to be mandated by AIP, but isn't anymore
)A big
to all the ATCs for making this as painless as possible - but the documents shouldn't be as unclear as they are and the information and training could've been better and clearer. I'm also in favour of standardising Class D procedures across all Class D zones - but let's standardise clear and sensible procedures!Ted
PS And we'll have had three different versions of the SIDs at the former GAAP airports over the course of a month, because of several attempts to 'fix' the old one which didn't really need fixing at all
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Ted,
Advice from the YBAF tower manager on Monday is yes, a departure report for IFR on a VFR departure. They will then approve your frequency change.
If you are handed over to approach/departures on a SID prior to giving a departure report, give them the airborne report (assuming you are departing from one of the former GAAPs into a radar environment).
For a pure VFR flight, no departure report and no need to advise/ask for the frequency change.
Regarding the number of SID changes, apparently it is 'illegal' (for lack of a better word) to assign you a heading when entering uncontrolled airspace. This is why the headings/heights they've been giving out have taken the punters straight in to CTA. They can't change the SID until the latest one has been active for 28 days. But heck, this is just a simple pilot talking, maybe one of the ATC folk can set me straight or offer a better explanation.
Advice from the YBAF tower manager on Monday is yes, a departure report for IFR on a VFR departure. They will then approve your frequency change.
If you are handed over to approach/departures on a SID prior to giving a departure report, give them the airborne report (assuming you are departing from one of the former GAAPs into a radar environment).
For a pure VFR flight, no departure report and no need to advise/ask for the frequency change.
Regarding the number of SID changes, apparently it is 'illegal' (for lack of a better word) to assign you a heading when entering uncontrolled airspace. This is why the headings/heights they've been giving out have taken the punters straight in to CTA. They can't change the SID until the latest one has been active for 28 days. But heck, this is just a simple pilot talking, maybe one of the ATC folk can set me straight or offer a better explanation.
Thanks, Ando1Bar. That all makes sense. (Haven't tried a VFR Departure here yet - the weather here has been such utter crap!) Why couldn't all the material make this clear? And why can't AIP and ERSA reflect what the guys on the ground and in the air are actually doing?
Ted
Ted
... because of several attempts to 'fix' the old one which didn't really need fixing at all
the activity of choice for CASA
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I am aware that the ATC folk in one Capital City are submitting an incident report to the ATSB on the whole process - the submission is lengthy with over 100 items that have been missed by the apparently rushed and closed door approach to these changes. What CASA will do with the eventual ATSB findings / recommendations? Well, you can probably guess.
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As for MB today, the new Class D Departure Report went something like this ...
Tower: "XXX, report 3 miles"
XXX: "Tower, XXX is 3 miles"
Tower: "XXX, frequency change approved"
XXX: "Thanks !"
XXX: "Tower, XXX is 3 miles"
Tower: "XXX, frequency change approved"
XXX: "Thanks !"