Turbo Charged Airvans in Kununurra
Thread Starter
Turbo Charged Airvans in Kununurra
That's right.
A well known operator has started upgrading the Airvan fleet to the new turbo charged Airvans.
As a Pilot that would be fantastic, more power, better take off and climb performance in the inland areas and climb performance at altitude etc however one can only wonder what will happen when the young whipper snappers are being let loose with the TIO-540. While a proven and reliable engine they do tend to cause heart ache for the operators if they are abused, run too lean or mishandled. I certainly remember cringing at the way the engines were operated in my time on pistons by both junior and even some senior type Pilots. Instructors where generally the worse treating every engine like it was an 0-235 or 0-200.
I certainly would not want green Pilots being let loose with one. Perhaps the extra payload they can carry will compensate for the increased maintenance costs. Most of those bungles scenics are however generally done from a low level and most strips have plenty of runway available to them.
Thoughts?
A well known operator has started upgrading the Airvan fleet to the new turbo charged Airvans.
As a Pilot that would be fantastic, more power, better take off and climb performance in the inland areas and climb performance at altitude etc however one can only wonder what will happen when the young whipper snappers are being let loose with the TIO-540. While a proven and reliable engine they do tend to cause heart ache for the operators if they are abused, run too lean or mishandled. I certainly remember cringing at the way the engines were operated in my time on pistons by both junior and even some senior type Pilots. Instructors where generally the worse treating every engine like it was an 0-235 or 0-200.
I certainly would not want green Pilots being let loose with one. Perhaps the extra payload they can carry will compensate for the increased maintenance costs. Most of those bungles scenics are however generally done from a low level and most strips have plenty of runway available to them.
Thoughts?
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I certainly have a thought on the matter.
Having spent many an hour staring through the bubble window loathing those aero-anchors holding me back I often wondered why in the hell don't we put some spats on those wheels. Sure there'd be no extra grunt on T/O but being a wee bit faster a touch less fuel might be needed increasing payload available. And don't say it's because of the size of the tyres and the bush strips, you only need them to cover a bit below the half-way point.
Turbo-charged GA8s in Kununurra, what's the big deal? Study some theory texts, read the Manual, operate to the Manual and after about three or four departures and approaches ICUS you'll be right (chuck at least one go around in there too).
If you Fununurra folks want to look at a beautiful turbo-charged single look no further than Steve's little rocket at Shoal Air, VH-DSO (the folks at Mooney even let you put a bit of breathing O2 to get proper use of the turbo-charger). Damn, I'm getting all teary-eyed thinking about the old girl and the remnants of my blood, sweat and tears which must still be floating around inside her fuel tanks.
FRQ CB
PS Do these GA8s have a fixed or variable waste gate? Can they be over-boosted on T/O near sea level? Have they done anything to FIX THE SEATS?
Having spent many an hour staring through the bubble window loathing those aero-anchors holding me back I often wondered why in the hell don't we put some spats on those wheels. Sure there'd be no extra grunt on T/O but being a wee bit faster a touch less fuel might be needed increasing payload available. And don't say it's because of the size of the tyres and the bush strips, you only need them to cover a bit below the half-way point.
Turbo-charged GA8s in Kununurra, what's the big deal? Study some theory texts, read the Manual, operate to the Manual and after about three or four departures and approaches ICUS you'll be right (chuck at least one go around in there too).
If you Fununurra folks want to look at a beautiful turbo-charged single look no further than Steve's little rocket at Shoal Air, VH-DSO (the folks at Mooney even let you put a bit of breathing O2 to get proper use of the turbo-charger). Damn, I'm getting all teary-eyed thinking about the old girl and the remnants of my blood, sweat and tears which must still be floating around inside her fuel tanks.
FRQ CB
PS Do these GA8s have a fixed or variable waste gate? Can they be over-boosted on T/O near sea level? Have they done anything to FIX THE SEATS?
Thread Starter
The spats would not last very long in the top end, with punters using it as a seat or a step to rocks being flicked into them.
A retractable strutless Airvan would be nice, CASA might not be so supportive however
The seats are still the same, one would have thought that after most Pilots suffering hemorrhoids after a season or two they would have cushioned them a little more.
Just because a Pilot is told to do something in line training does not mean they won't think they know better 20 hours later on the line. get high on profile, power back, get low power on wasting all that cooling. Lean for cruise, then decide they want a higher level, increase power, forget mixture etc etc.
We shall see in 12 months or if they make TBO which should be two years or so
A retractable strutless Airvan would be nice, CASA might not be so supportive however
The seats are still the same, one would have thought that after most Pilots suffering hemorrhoids after a season or two they would have cushioned them a little more.
Just because a Pilot is told to do something in line training does not mean they won't think they know better 20 hours later on the line. get high on profile, power back, get low power on wasting all that cooling. Lean for cruise, then decide they want a higher level, increase power, forget mixture etc etc.
We shall see in 12 months or if they make TBO which should be two years or so
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I am sure that the operator would ENSURE(not insure) that ANY pilot, be it newby or otherwise would be properly trained.
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Blueskymine, if they were taught to lean them properly and they climbed forgetting the mixture they would not do any harm at all. 
Its about time folk in GA of all ages started to learn about the science of combustion and where to operate their engines.
Of course if they were being operated just a fraction too rich and did that.....yes you may have a point.
Its about time folk in GA of all ages started to learn about the science of combustion and where to operate their engines.
Of course if they were being operated just a fraction too rich and did that.....yes you may have a point.
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Totally agree with bluesky, the proof will be in the pudding in a years time. From all reports there is no increase in MTOW, so the advantages i would say would be minimal. I would imagine the cost would be somewhere between 700K-1 mill also, so Alligator outta hope they have a smart business plan in place. I think in this day and age, with people getting heavier, it is very difficult to LEGALLY fit 7 pax in an airvan with a payload to the bungles of roughly 510kg. So what happened to the good old C210's, they are the true money makers, as well as the trusty C207's. In terms of engine management i suppose they better hope the new chief pilot is sound in teaching green pilots how to fly turbos. Im sure they have it under control....surely.....
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Im sure they have it under control....surely.....
FRQ CB
PS Woo hoo, my 5ooth post. Time to break out the bubbly... and drink it... from a plastic flute... by myself... as I troll through my exciting life on PPRuNe. Damn.
Edit - In hindsight from 2012: were the lessons learnt?
Last edited by FRQ Charlie Bravo; 31st May 2012 at 22:38. Reason: see in text
Just dont have the fish FRQ CB!
Jaba, I concur 100%, however even with operators at the GA level, most still have SOP's to adhere to. So no matter how much research and learning you can do about operating piston engines, it doesn't change the fact you have to operate them the way the Owner/Boss/CP/Head gringo said you should operate them.
Jaba, I concur 100%, however even with operators at the GA level, most still have SOP's to adhere to. So no matter how much research and learning you can do about operating piston engines, it doesn't change the fact you have to operate them the way the Owner/Boss/CP/Head gringo said you should operate them.
Thread Starter
Of course if they were being operated just a fraction too rich and did that.....yes you may have a point.
If they had GAMI injectors and a full FADEC setup perhaps. Something tells me that won't be happening anytime soon.
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Turbo Airvan
The Turbo Airvan is a great aircraft and as other ppruners have mentioned if trained right there is no real problems with letting a junior (or senior) pilot loose on one.
If they can use it in skydive operations in which its full throttle to FL145 with 9 POB then down again in 5 min and that sort of operation being approved by Gippsland Aero and the engine manufacturers (with help of a 6 probe egt system + EDM).
i think for the performance it has over its little brother, good move for the operators in Kunnas.
Sky_Pilot
If they can use it in skydive operations in which its full throttle to FL145 with 9 POB then down again in 5 min and that sort of operation being approved by Gippsland Aero and the engine manufacturers (with help of a 6 probe egt system + EDM).
i think for the performance it has over its little brother, good move for the operators in Kunnas.
Sky_Pilot
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Chadzat
Precisely where the changes need to be happening. And remove the OWT's.
J
it doesn't change the fact you have to operate them the way the Owner/Boss/CP/Head gringo said you should operate them.
J
In terms of engine management i suppose they better hope the new chief pilot is sound in teaching green pilots how to fly turbos. Im sure they have it under control....surely.....
The way you guys are carrying on, you'd think the Airvan was like the space shuttle!
The Airvan is a very docile Aeroplane, but it's still capable of carrying 7 souls plus your own ego. If one speared in it would be up there with the worst aviation accidents in Australia. Coupled with the fact they are operated by 200 hour Pilots makes you wonder.
as well as the trusty C207's.
I always wondered why Captain Croc didn't go down the caravan path though like the experts of the long field landing next door..........
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If they can use it in skydive operations in which its full throttle to FL145 with 9 POB then down again in 5 min and that sort of operation being approved by Gippsland Aero and the engine manufacturers (with help of a 6 probe egt system + EDM).
geee I'd like to know the numbers they're using on decent.... hope the drivers are keeping a eye on the cht's
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Because "im telling you this is the first step to Alligator owning Skywest"
FRQ CB
Am sure any operator planning to operate TC pwr plants will do their homework re training & eng handling. We've had TC engines for a few years now so nothing new there.
Will be interesting to see the Jet A1 version of the 'Van' one day. Turbines are so much nicer/smoother to use providing some good sound training has been put in place udderwise one 'cooked' in-line 4 stroke eng will cost a LOT more than a blown few cylinders on a TC recip donk! I hear the Turbine version is in the making, perhaps a Allison C10B or similar at say de-rated to 400 gee gees??...........nice
Wmk2
Will be interesting to see the Jet A1 version of the 'Van' one day. Turbines are so much nicer/smoother to use providing some good sound training has been put in place udderwise one 'cooked' in-line 4 stroke eng will cost a LOT more than a blown few cylinders on a TC recip donk! I hear the Turbine version is in the making, perhaps a Allison C10B or similar at say de-rated to 400 gee gees??...........nice
Wmk2
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Like any turbo Cessna, pin the Top of the green Manifold and RPM lean to specs and no more and you simply cannot go wrong.
Turbo Charging is GOOD for the engine, stable pressures, and a happy engine
Turbo Charging is GOOD for the engine, stable pressures, and a happy engine
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Overhaul Costs?
Not knocking the Airvan, but I don't see the economic sense in using the Turbocharged version unless you really need the altitude capability.
From Lycoming, a rebuilt-exchange engine for the turbo version runs $76,992 USD vs $48,955 USD for the normally aspirated version.
I don't know the TBO of these engines, but imagine the turbo version is probably 100-200 less?
That's big chunk of cash per hour!
From Lycoming, a rebuilt-exchange engine for the turbo version runs $76,992 USD vs $48,955 USD for the normally aspirated version.
I don't know the TBO of these engines, but imagine the turbo version is probably 100-200 less?
That's big chunk of cash per hour!