Does ETOPs include INTER/TEMPOs
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: melbourne
Does ETOPs include INTER/TEMPOs
Quick question
Does the requirment of the aerodrome forcast to be above the Alternate Min WX also include and Inters/Tempos
So if you are operating on a 120min ETOPS and the aerodrome has 60min Holding do you need to be within 60 min of that aerodrome to allow for the extra 60min holding??
Does the requirment of the aerodrome forcast to be above the Alternate Min WX also include and Inters/Tempos
So if you are operating on a 120min ETOPS and the aerodrome has 60min Holding do you need to be within 60 min of that aerodrome to allow for the extra 60min holding??
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: Stralya
For our operation, we do not need to consider a TEMPO for a nominated EDTO Alternate Airport, if it is less than PROB 40. If it is PROB 40, we then need to consult if it introduces a requirement with WX forecast to be below company published EDTO minima.
Once dispatched, we can disregard TEMPO and must prior to the EDTO Entry Point (EEP), verify that forecast for EDTO-Alternates are above Landing Minima for the period in question (Early Arrival to Late Arrival), for each individual nominated EDTO Alternate.
Once we have hit EEP, all bets are off - we may continue to destination, even if EDTO-Alternates become or are forecast to drop below landing minima.
You must however, check your own company's requirements. CASA may vary this upon request from each individual operator.
Hope that helps - RJ
Once dispatched, we can disregard TEMPO and must prior to the EDTO Entry Point (EEP), verify that forecast for EDTO-Alternates are above Landing Minima for the period in question (Early Arrival to Late Arrival), for each individual nominated EDTO Alternate.
Once we have hit EEP, all bets are off - we may continue to destination, even if EDTO-Alternates become or are forecast to drop below landing minima.
You must however, check your own company's requirements. CASA may vary this upon request from each individual operator.
Hope that helps - RJ
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: ..
Can you guys tell me does your operator put weather requirements on Non-ETOPS routes. Eg SYD-PER if you can remain within 1hr of adequates then it is non-etops so by the rules wx is not taken into account. Or do they require it can only be flown non-etops when the 60min ariports are open?
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,704
Likes: 589
From: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Very astute question Astinapilot. I'd be interested to see the answers. I have always though of it as one of the the more stupid concepts: as long as you are within 60 / 90 mins of an airport - even if there's not a snowball's chance in hell you'd be landing there due wx - you're non EDTO/ETOPS.
I'd be interested to see how the airlines' beancounters play that one vs the captain who takes some extra EDTO topup fuel.
And Redjet - how soon into the flight to you get to your EEP? Many airlines differ on this. I believe some nominate it as soon as they are airborne...
I'd be interested to see how the airlines' beancounters play that one vs the captain who takes some extra EDTO topup fuel.
And Redjet - how soon into the flight to you get to your EEP? Many airlines differ on this. I believe some nominate it as soon as they are airborne...
Joined: Jan 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 601
Likes: 13
From: Brisbane
Shaftmaster
I am not sure that your question has been answered.
I think your question is:
If you are operating 120 minutes from an EDTO enroute alternate, and that edto enroute alternate requires 60 minutes holding, do you need to now fly 60 minutes from that alternate (i.e. divert 400 or so miles closer) so that the 120 minutes is made up of 60 minutes to get there and 60 minutes to hold....
Is that your question?
If so - no..you wouldn't divert to stay within 60 minutes for a tempo, or 90 minutes for an inter....
I am not sure that your question has been answered.
I think your question is:
If you are operating 120 minutes from an EDTO enroute alternate, and that edto enroute alternate requires 60 minutes holding, do you need to now fly 60 minutes from that alternate (i.e. divert 400 or so miles closer) so that the 120 minutes is made up of 60 minutes to get there and 60 minutes to hold....
Is that your question?
If so - no..you wouldn't divert to stay within 60 minutes for a tempo, or 90 minutes for an inter....
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: Stralya
Hi Stallie,
For us it is 90 minutes flying time at EOI- speed, giving us a distance of 671 miles til EET (that doesn't have to be your departure point BTW. For MEL-LAX we sometimes use EET predicated on BNE + 671 miles along track). Some operators use 60 minutes, and it can indeed simetimes be advantageous to get into your EDTO segment sooner, rather than later.
And you're right about the use of non-EDTO - as long as there is an operational airport THERE (within 60 minutes EOI flying time), it matters not whether it is socked in in fog.
Cheers
For us it is 90 minutes flying time at EOI- speed, giving us a distance of 671 miles til EET (that doesn't have to be your departure point BTW. For MEL-LAX we sometimes use EET predicated on BNE + 671 miles along track). Some operators use 60 minutes, and it can indeed simetimes be advantageous to get into your EDTO segment sooner, rather than later.
And you're right about the use of non-EDTO - as long as there is an operational airport THERE (within 60 minutes EOI flying time), it matters not whether it is socked in in fog.
Cheers
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,704
Likes: 589
From: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Jaba - Off the top of my head, FAA and JAA NPRMs bringing in a 180 minute EDTO [entry] threshold for >2 engined aircraft. I do recall 2015 for the CASA date, but did not pay much attention to it.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Australia
With due respect, I fail to see why this thread was moved from Reporting Points to GA when the subject matter is very much Airline/RPT and in fact all the answers seem to be from same group of pilots. There sometimes seems to be a lack of standardisation with the Mods in this regard. No wonder many of us are confused!
