How do operators get away with it?
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How do operators get away with it?
Scratching my head as to how certain operators can legally (and morally) get away with paying Pilots less than award?
I understand the moral aspect more than the legal, seeing there is always some fresh CPL, desperate Pilot willing to work for free, for less etc.
Heard of a little while back of a skydiving mob paying $40 a day, irrespective of the amount of hours worked or in this case, loads taken.
Is the loophole in the private ops classification? Surely then, if one is to be paid, award wage must at least be adhered to?
Flaws me how anyone could live on $40 a day with living expenses, even more so a professional pilot.
Should we start playing the name and shame game? If an operator is reaping reward for their employees hard work, then it is morally
that at least a fair proportion of that be passed on to the employees as renumeration.
I understand the moral aspect more than the legal, seeing there is always some fresh CPL, desperate Pilot willing to work for free, for less etc.
Heard of a little while back of a skydiving mob paying $40 a day, irrespective of the amount of hours worked or in this case, loads taken.
Is the loophole in the private ops classification? Surely then, if one is to be paid, award wage must at least be adhered to?
Flaws me how anyone could live on $40 a day with living expenses, even more so a professional pilot.
Should we start playing the name and shame game? If an operator is reaping reward for their employees hard work, then it is morally
that at least a fair proportion of that be passed on to the employees as renumeration.
The Award makes no distinction on the class of operations. If you're employed as a pilot, you must be paid as a pilot.
The thing that really gets me, is when a company is proud of itself for paying only the award. The award is the absolute legal minimum... it is not a target to aim for, it is not the maximum a pilot should earn.
The thing that really gets me, is when a company is proud of itself for paying only the award. The award is the absolute legal minimum... it is not a target to aim for, it is not the maximum a pilot should earn.
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Ive heard of pilots getting a lot less than $40 a day for jump flying! Seeing that you are not really 'employed' as a pilot in most cases, i cant see how the award can be inforced in these situatuons like you mentioned Lasiorhinus.
Also as a private op, is it even legal to pay a (CPL) jump pilot?
Also as a private op, is it even legal to pay a (CPL) jump pilot?
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Also as a private op, is it even legal to pay a (CPL) jump pilot?
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I for one am somewhat confused by the legal implications of the award. With the changing industrial relations climate, and from what i hear from others, I think I'm not the only one.
Is the award legally enforceable in all states and territories, and if so, by who? The AFAP appear to do little on this front so who can be approached if the terms of the award aren't being met?
I'm aware this issue has been done many times before but rumours and 'my next door neighbour whos a lawyer reckons...' type comments only confuse the subject more. It would be great to have someone in the know post a definitive answer to some of these questions. I'm sure it'd be of value to newbies and not so newbies alike.
(yes, I am paid as per the award but like everywhere there are sometimes issues as to how its applied)
Is the award legally enforceable in all states and territories, and if so, by who? The AFAP appear to do little on this front so who can be approached if the terms of the award aren't being met?
I'm aware this issue has been done many times before but rumours and 'my next door neighbour whos a lawyer reckons...' type comments only confuse the subject more. It would be great to have someone in the know post a definitive answer to some of these questions. I'm sure it'd be of value to newbies and not so newbies alike.
(yes, I am paid as per the award but like everywhere there are sometimes issues as to how its applied)
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Guys, you've got it quite arse about.
CASA: deal with the aircraft bit, if it is categorised as private, thats fine, what you get paid is a totally different thing and of no interest to CASA.
Industrial relations: each state has a governing body, it deals with workers minimum wages and conditions, it has nothing to do with CASA.
So, if you are being paid as a pilot, that does not make it a commercial (IAW CAR 206 ) operation.
Perhaps try the search function on pprune, this topic has been done to death and the result was quite simple, you must be paid atleast the award ( be that AFAP or miniumum award, as applicable ).
In some states the AFAP award is not common law and in other states, not all companies are signatories to the award.
If your state has made it common law, you must be paid atleast the AFAP award.
If your state has not made it common law, then you must be paid atleast the minimum award wage.
Search it, trust me nothing new is likely to present itself in this thread.
CASA: deal with the aircraft bit, if it is categorised as private, thats fine, what you get paid is a totally different thing and of no interest to CASA.
Industrial relations: each state has a governing body, it deals with workers minimum wages and conditions, it has nothing to do with CASA.
So, if you are being paid as a pilot, that does not make it a commercial (IAW CAR 206 ) operation.
Perhaps try the search function on pprune, this topic has been done to death and the result was quite simple, you must be paid atleast the award ( be that AFAP or miniumum award, as applicable ).
In some states the AFAP award is not common law and in other states, not all companies are signatories to the award.
If your state has made it common law, you must be paid atleast the AFAP award.
If your state has not made it common law, then you must be paid atleast the minimum award wage.
Search it, trust me nothing new is likely to present itself in this thread.
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Supply and demand. Just like it's always been, and always will be...
If you don't like it, don't take the job. If you do take the job, stop whining about the pay.
If you don't like it, don't take the job. If you do take the job, stop whining about the pay.
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Merh,
You must be a young fella straight out of school or Uni ?
A) Legally - Operations/Operators are a business. I have never met a CEO who isn't at least willing to push this boundary. Laws are restrictive, resrictions can mean less revenue.Now before all the 'honest John's' out there start battering me, I am not saying that people are breaking the law, however I have been around long enough and seen enough to know the truth to this matter.
B) Morally - Now that is funny.Sorry Merh,but the last time an honest man walked the earth was 2000 yeras ago and he performed miracles and didnt run an aviation enterprise ! If a CEO/Director these days is morally ethical then he doesn't last more than a week in that role. Doesnt work, never has and never will, no matter how much spin and ****e they preach.
All heil Darth,the finest example.......
Scratching my head as to how certain operators can legally (and morally) get away with paying Pilots less than award?
A) Legally - Operations/Operators are a business. I have never met a CEO who isn't at least willing to push this boundary. Laws are restrictive, resrictions can mean less revenue.Now before all the 'honest John's' out there start battering me, I am not saying that people are breaking the law, however I have been around long enough and seen enough to know the truth to this matter.
B) Morally - Now that is funny.Sorry Merh,but the last time an honest man walked the earth was 2000 yeras ago and he performed miracles and didnt run an aviation enterprise ! If a CEO/Director these days is morally ethical then he doesn't last more than a week in that role. Doesnt work, never has and never will, no matter how much spin and ****e they preach.
All heil Darth,the finest example.......
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Because pilots are ruled by the heart and not the brain.
Every occupation that has a 'Gee, I'd LOVE to do that' factor suffers the very same problem.
Pilots are generally starstruck and consequently easily manipulated. Those that aren't either don't fly or fly recreationally because they have made their money elsewhere.
Mind you a few airline pilots have said to me about recreational GA/RAA "This is the FUN end of flying"
When flying has no more romance attached to it or getting a CPL gets too expensive things might improve...
Every occupation that has a 'Gee, I'd LOVE to do that' factor suffers the very same problem.
Pilots are generally starstruck and consequently easily manipulated. Those that aren't either don't fly or fly recreationally because they have made their money elsewhere.
Mind you a few airline pilots have said to me about recreational GA/RAA "This is the FUN end of flying"
When flying has no more romance attached to it or getting a CPL gets too expensive things might improve...
I was under the impression that the pilot award is now enforceable Australia wide as it is a federal award? Didn't that come in in January when the new "modern" award thingy/workchoices/whatever happened?
And companies no longer have to sign up to it. If they employ pilots they have to pay it.
i think....
And companies no longer have to sign up to it. If they employ pilots they have to pay it.
i think....
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And thus ensure that the situation doesn't change.
And that, of course, will NEVER happen. Never has, never will.
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quote:
In some states the AFAP award is not common law and in other states, not all companies are signatories to the award.
If your state has made it common law, you must be paid atleast the AFAP award.
If your state has not made it common law, then you must be paid atleast the minimum award wage.
Fact: its not the AFAP award. Lets just get that straight first. The award is set by the industrial relations commission i.e the Federal Government not AFAP. It covers all states and territories as from January this year.
quote:
Search it, trust me nothing new is likely to present itself in this thread.
Fact: it just did
In some states the AFAP award is not common law and in other states, not all companies are signatories to the award.
If your state has made it common law, you must be paid atleast the AFAP award.
If your state has not made it common law, then you must be paid atleast the minimum award wage.
Fact: its not the AFAP award. Lets just get that straight first. The award is set by the industrial relations commission i.e the Federal Government not AFAP. It covers all states and territories as from January this year.
quote:
Search it, trust me nothing new is likely to present itself in this thread.
Fact: it just did
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From the Fair Work Australia website;
I know the above talks about the period of time between Jan and July but if you're not getting what you are REQUIRED TO BE PAID BY LAW then submit a complaint to the Ombudsman. They are required to look into it and if they believe you have been shafted they WILL do something about it. I saw it done at a previous company I worked for (no, it wasn't me who did it) and there was some serious back pay etc dished out because of that company's non-compliance with the award.
What's the right pay?
From 1 January 2010, modern awards and national minimum wage orders set minimum wages for most employees in the national system.
However, a number of modern awards contain a model phasing schedule, which allows wages and penalty rates which are higher or lower than pre-existing conditions to be progressively introduced in 5 annual instalments. This period gives employers and employees who are affected by modern awards enough time to introduce the changes.
If the modern award contains this model phasing schedule between 1 January 2010 and 1 July 2010 the pre-modern award rates (eg. from a pay scale, or State reference transitional award) will continue and must be paid.
If you believe you've been underpaid, you can complain to the Fair Work Ombudsman.
We have the power to enforce the law, ensuring your employer pays you the amount you're supposed to get.
Find out what you should be paid. Call the Fair Work Infoline on 13 13 94 or chat online with our
Live help advisor
From 1 January 2010, modern awards and national minimum wage orders set minimum wages for most employees in the national system.
However, a number of modern awards contain a model phasing schedule, which allows wages and penalty rates which are higher or lower than pre-existing conditions to be progressively introduced in 5 annual instalments. This period gives employers and employees who are affected by modern awards enough time to introduce the changes.
If the modern award contains this model phasing schedule between 1 January 2010 and 1 July 2010 the pre-modern award rates (eg. from a pay scale, or State reference transitional award) will continue and must be paid.
If you believe you've been underpaid, you can complain to the Fair Work Ombudsman.
We have the power to enforce the law, ensuring your employer pays you the amount you're supposed to get.
Find out what you should be paid. Call the Fair Work Infoline on 13 13 94 or chat online with our
Live help advisor
I know the above talks about the period of time between Jan and July but if you're not getting what you are REQUIRED TO BE PAID BY LAW then submit a complaint to the Ombudsman. They are required to look into it and if they believe you have been shafted they WILL do something about it. I saw it done at a previous company I worked for (no, it wasn't me who did it) and there was some serious back pay etc dished out because of that company's non-compliance with the award.
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Cactusjack
I personally take offense at that.....I actually take a morally sound stand when it comes not just to the pay but the overall "family environment" our employees have. And its not all about $$$, mind you, if you are getting paid half what you should be the rest does not matter.........
If a CEO/Director these days is morally ethical then he doesn't last more than a week in that role. Doesnt work, never has and never will, no matter how much spin and ****e they preach.