CASA Exams Tagging Rules Changed
Join Date: Dec 1999
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What is the fuss? I didnt use tags, just learn the books, I got 90+ on every subject and time was not an issue. I put a good 4 months of private study into it however. I had around 2000 hours when I did the ATPL theory, as a low hour I guess it is different but just delay it until your up to speed, pretty simple really. I found Air Law a piece of pi$$, as well as flight planning. Systems was my bug bear.
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Reality check... what are we checking here...
isnt the exam to ensure the candidates have sound understanding and knowledge of the rules and regulations... If it is to ensure we know it and can find it in a timely manner then wtf - im sorry but when asked a question or referencing something at work i dont give myself 3 minuts per question to find it and then a big red alarm goes off and im fired...
If this is the case perhaps i should remove all of the tags from the company set of orders etc. or remove the search function from the casa website.. as it could be considered cheating during the course of work.
and heaven forbid i have a problem and cant find my emergency procedures for comms failures in my ERSA because i was forced to remove big red tag that says EMERGENCY...
seriously, just make it close book and be done with it... surely we can all recall the schedules in the 727 manual.
maybe we should make it closed book navigation too and forbid maps as it could be considered cheating.. surely every "professional" pilot if remembering every obscure ruling not applicable to daily life but comes up once in a while should be able to memorise every landmark from their route checks...
oh wait that would be ridiculous... thanks CASA for saving the day...
isnt the exam to ensure the candidates have sound understanding and knowledge of the rules and regulations... If it is to ensure we know it and can find it in a timely manner then wtf - im sorry but when asked a question or referencing something at work i dont give myself 3 minuts per question to find it and then a big red alarm goes off and im fired...
If this is the case perhaps i should remove all of the tags from the company set of orders etc. or remove the search function from the casa website.. as it could be considered cheating during the course of work.
and heaven forbid i have a problem and cant find my emergency procedures for comms failures in my ERSA because i was forced to remove big red tag that says EMERGENCY...
seriously, just make it close book and be done with it... surely we can all recall the schedules in the 727 manual.
maybe we should make it closed book navigation too and forbid maps as it could be considered cheating.. surely every "professional" pilot if remembering every obscure ruling not applicable to daily life but comes up once in a while should be able to memorise every landmark from their route checks...
oh wait that would be ridiculous... thanks CASA for saving the day...
Last edited by Xcel; 21st Apr 2010 at 13:40.
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Memorising The rules?
G'day guys,
I just wanted to know if it's possible/recommended to study most of the rules off by heart?
I mean, Is it a MUST to flip through the documents for reference to EVERY question? Or only the questions your abit shaky on?
What are your experiences in regards to the questions?
Regards,
In Out
p.s. Not meaning to drift off thread!
I just wanted to know if it's possible/recommended to study most of the rules off by heart?
I mean, Is it a MUST to flip through the documents for reference to EVERY question? Or only the questions your abit shaky on?
What are your experiences in regards to the questions?
Regards,
In Out
p.s. Not meaning to drift off thread!
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Hmmm, Tagging severely limited/ not allowed because people aren't using the index and contents pages. Why aren't they being used? Because they're rediculously organised and completely inadequate!
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I knocked off ATPL Air Law close to 10 years ago now. Hadn't even heard of AFT when I sat the exam. It was simply a matter of getting the Flight Rules and Air Law book from Aviation Theory Centre sitting down and trying to find the answer to every single question.
Yes, the index was ****house to non-existent. But after the first set of questions it quickly became apparent where to find the answers based on the topic. A tag here and there helped to find things a tad quicker - licensing starting at CAR 5.x but one on ATPL save flicking through trying to find information specific to the ATPL or flick back from that tage and in to the CPL stuff - but it certainly wasn't the be all and end all. Didn't even bother hilighting, after finishing all those questions, I'd read most of those same paragraphs 20 times.
Since getting out in to the industry and flying with guys, and watching a number of them attempt to pass the ATPLs, it absolutely amazes me the length they go to just to "pass the exam" rather than learn the material. I've seen at least 30 different ways of cheating, and a huge number of books tagged with the messiest tags it's impossible to find anything anyway (seriously, space them out so you can read five tags at a time, rather all on top of each other, I didnt think it was that hard?!) Seriously the amount of time wasted on these schemes that ultimately don't work and lead to more whining about the exams would be much better spent actually studying - the guys who do actually study rather than look for the cheat sheets are the ones from what I've seen who are passing first time with 90+ %
glenb: CASA do already consult with a small number of instructors in the industry. The lecturer I had for Flight Planning previously wrote exam questions for CASA and three years after I did the exam went back to writing exam questions for another two years, before getting back in to teaching again. PPL students can also use the VFR Flight Guide, though the information in it is not regularly updated (though very few things in it change!).
It might suprise a lot of you to know they do adjust the exams based on pass marks. If people are constantly getting a certain question wrong, the question is reviewed. While sitting my ATPLs the time allowed in some exams was increased and decreased in others based on performance of previous candidates (we saw a lot of these changes in the year after moving to cyber based exams because people were taking longer with the computer, although two of the exams decreased in time because most people finished earlier).
If this rule change means less guys are passing (and I'd be pissed as well if I was the bunny taking Air Law the week after it changes, fail because I need another 15 minutes without tags) then you will see the time allowed increase. If enough people accept the change, study hard enough to pass without tags and manage to do it in the time allowed, well you won't see any difference will you?
Yes, the index was ****house to non-existent. But after the first set of questions it quickly became apparent where to find the answers based on the topic. A tag here and there helped to find things a tad quicker - licensing starting at CAR 5.x but one on ATPL save flicking through trying to find information specific to the ATPL or flick back from that tage and in to the CPL stuff - but it certainly wasn't the be all and end all. Didn't even bother hilighting, after finishing all those questions, I'd read most of those same paragraphs 20 times.
Since getting out in to the industry and flying with guys, and watching a number of them attempt to pass the ATPLs, it absolutely amazes me the length they go to just to "pass the exam" rather than learn the material. I've seen at least 30 different ways of cheating, and a huge number of books tagged with the messiest tags it's impossible to find anything anyway (seriously, space them out so you can read five tags at a time, rather all on top of each other, I didnt think it was that hard?!) Seriously the amount of time wasted on these schemes that ultimately don't work and lead to more whining about the exams would be much better spent actually studying - the guys who do actually study rather than look for the cheat sheets are the ones from what I've seen who are passing first time with 90+ %
glenb: CASA do already consult with a small number of instructors in the industry. The lecturer I had for Flight Planning previously wrote exam questions for CASA and three years after I did the exam went back to writing exam questions for another two years, before getting back in to teaching again. PPL students can also use the VFR Flight Guide, though the information in it is not regularly updated (though very few things in it change!).
It might suprise a lot of you to know they do adjust the exams based on pass marks. If people are constantly getting a certain question wrong, the question is reviewed. While sitting my ATPLs the time allowed in some exams was increased and decreased in others based on performance of previous candidates (we saw a lot of these changes in the year after moving to cyber based exams because people were taking longer with the computer, although two of the exams decreased in time because most people finished earlier).
If this rule change means less guys are passing (and I'd be pissed as well if I was the bunny taking Air Law the week after it changes, fail because I need another 15 minutes without tags) then you will see the time allowed increase. If enough people accept the change, study hard enough to pass without tags and manage to do it in the time allowed, well you won't see any difference will you?
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Geez you are a cynical pilot aren't you 
The exam is there, if you want an ATPL it's what you have to do, deal with it. I don't mind if you want to stick with the small stuff, no skin off my nose.
The exam is there, if you want an ATPL it's what you have to do, deal with it. I don't mind if you want to stick with the small stuff, no skin off my nose.
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Where on the CASA web are the new rules re tabbing??? What amazes me is how CASA feel the need to make changes due to "Security Measures", or so I read are the reasons behind the changes.
Probably there are too many candidates passing the ATPL's and CPL's theory tests these days and CASA aren't making enough money from candidates re-sitting exams, also ASL are probably down a few bob and have advised CASA that to increase revenue lets just adopt another stupid method to increase our profits.
And to all those out there who did their Seniors,ATPL's before colour TV and the telephone were invented where certain practices weren't allowed in the exam "WHO CARES" changes occur with the times people. Lets look at moving forward and adopting better practices rather than living in the 1950's where our industry still is.........
Probably there are too many candidates passing the ATPL's and CPL's theory tests these days and CASA aren't making enough money from candidates re-sitting exams, also ASL are probably down a few bob and have advised CASA that to increase revenue lets just adopt another stupid method to increase our profits.
And to all those out there who did their Seniors,ATPL's before colour TV and the telephone were invented where certain practices weren't allowed in the exam "WHO CARES" changes occur with the times people. Lets look at moving forward and adopting better practices rather than living in the 1950's where our industry still is.........
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el_capitano: it's hidden away in the cyber exams section:
Civil Aviation Safety Authority - CASA Exam Policy
Civil Aviation Safety Authority - CASA Exam Policy
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Note...try booking an exam sometime in the next 10 days....not a chance in hell. It's funny what motivates people to do the study isn't it? Motivation technique here, a combination of fear and panic....
If security was the real reason, why could they not rule that all tags must be in English, as the manuals are....
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I think the main problem here is not only the policy but the time of implementation. Sure if they said a few weeks/months so schools, ATPL theory organizations such as Secombe etc could re organize and prepare classes given the new circumstances but this has not eventuated and now they will get a flurry of guys attempting exams in the next week-two who a.) are not ready and b.) will clearly not learn the topic but just a pass as you say.
Doing this for IREX especially could prove fatal but anyways thats not for me to judge.
Doing this for IREX especially could prove fatal but anyways thats not for me to judge.
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Quote:
Hopeless index on CAR/CAO
Read: non-existant
Hopeless index on CAR/CAO
Read: non-existant
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Today managed to call up Casa and speak to supposedly someone who was heavily involved in the decision making behind these new changes. Apparently he is the head of tha air law division and can be contacted on 02 6217 1643 if anyone has any questions.. asked him to find the standard rate of climb/descent in aip since it aint in index and started timing- seems like he struggled a fair bit