An interesting NOTAM?

[AerocatS2A]

Perhaps Dick is just getting into the spirit of the OP.

[eocvictim]

I can proudly say that I smashed the limit a couple of years ago in a single engine piston. 9,500ft on descent over Tulla into Moorabbin, SR22, 200 indicated, add for TAS and a massive tail wind giving 270 knots. Can't complain.

Its IAS anyway, not TAS and certainly not GS. Just as well as the GAM shrikes at AD and EN would have to slow down most nights in winter.

[Frank Arouet]

VH-XXX;

You can't claim a tailwind!

May 1974. FL 240 ISA, night flight Dubbo to Sydney 3 POB V35TC VH-DLO, 200 Kts straight and level before descent, normal predicted TAS.

GPS wasn't invented then. I descended at book figures, but ATC wanted a high speed ability below 10,000 due traffic separation which was accomplished OK.

A good tin aeroplane is probably as good as your modern "plastic fantastics"

[Jabawocky]

And what is the VNE for an SR22 Mr XXX ? With an estimated TAS of 225 there!

I would not like you doing that in any Cirrus that I owned......not that I would!

J

[Jabawocky]

And Frank, was the VNE on that model 195kts? What TAS did you achieve n the way down ?

Them tin bits may have parted company....... then what?

[Frank Arouet]

Just looked at the notes I still have. ISA VNE 195 Kts CAS. Full throttle, 2500 RPM 75% 214 BHP FL 240 is 230 MPH./ 199.64 Kts. Descent as previously stated, at book figures. Strong as a "bone". Max speed below 10,000 in those days was, from memory, 200 Kts.

[Jabawocky]

I assume that the 199knots is TAS not IAS?

The V Tail must have a tolerence beyond 195 for TAS then if they publish that as being acceptable behaviour. Where is the Dr when you need him!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Where is the Dr when you need him!

Fishing!

Dr

[VH-XXX]

And what is the VNE for an SR22 Mr XXX

Easy Jaba. 201 KIAS. Only an irresponsible fellow would go over VNE.

Don't try that at home in the RV10 or you'll get that dreaded wing flutter I have been reading about.

[compressor stall]

Flutter? Scary stuff in a PA30...

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Mov...EM-0098-01.mov

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Vne in the Bonanza is 196 kts. I believe that they are test flown to 10% above that before delivery.

So what is the "margin for error" ? Dunno, but the ruddervator beef-up AD is some comfort.

I rarely descend above top of the green - but that's just me.

Jaba doesn't seem to have the same reservations on descent in the Retard Vehicle - when trying to stay ahead of the FTDK!

Dr

[Chimbu chuckles]

I was NOBBLED???

[Capn Bloggs]

The pansies who programmed my Boeing's FMS put in a limit of 245 BLO 10k, just so we don't get caught for hooning. Wusses.

[ARFOR]

yes, but we know 'the dart' will downhill much better than that

As long as it is not Class E

C and D in Oz enable fast descents [for sequencing] because VFR hear IFR, and IFR hear VFR, you are known about by ATC, who is not going to let you hit one another

In E, well, even 250kts reducing is gunna be a Mark 1 EB challenge.

At least in the 30nm CTAF/CAGRO IFR can hear VFR broadcasts

[LeadSled]

Chimbu Chuck,

How does this work??

Light aircraft don't (usually) have an ADC, or any other digitized IAS data, the Garmin 330 Mode S transponder plus GDL 90 GPS source has no IAS input of any kind, I was not aware that IAS was a required input into an ADS-B/C message??

Tootle pip??

PS: Re. Class E airspace, can ATC really give an exemption to a statutory speed limit. Last time I read the rules, ATC could only waive a speed limit in A and C??
But maybe I have missed an amendment??

Unfortunately, 250 kt. is often a very inefficient speed for many large aircraft, particularly on climb at heavy weights. Anybody for Flaps 1 to 10,000 on a 744 at max weight. Not any time this pilot is flying one, see the airplane flight manual.

[Capn Bloggs]

In E, well, even 250kts reducing is gunna be a Mark 1 EB challenge.

Yep, 300, 250 or 200 woouldn't make any difference:

[ARFOR]

Class E airspace, can ATC really give an exemption to a statutory speed limit

In class E? I would not think so. Even if ATC technically could, not too many ATC's would accept responsibility for increasing the risk [higher closing speeds] to pilots [the unkown VFR and/or IFR] who are left reliant on seeing [and avoiding] each other.

In terminal area [where climb and descent is part of the conflict exposure] E, nobody knows with any certainty, the track or altitude intentions of a large proportion of the conflict scenarios i.e. the VFR component. In D or higher categories they do.

[LeadSled]

ARFOR,

That's the point, speed limits in A/C (have a think about the new D, maybe another legislative change coming up) can clearly be waived, but it is a statutory limit in E and G.

Therefor, only the pilot in command can, on legitimate safety grounds, can determine that 250 kt below 10,000 can be exceeded.

Unfortunately, our regulations are far from clear, as to the authority of the PIC is concerned, compared to FAR 91.3.

See also Part 91.117(d), whereas in AU, the power of the PIC to do as in (d) must be inferred.

Receiving a bluie (administrative fine) in the mail effectively (if not strictly legally) leaves you "guilty" unless you can prove your innocence, including by virtue of exercising the authority of the PIC.

Tootle pip!!

PS: Extract from FARs.

§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Chimbu Chuck,

How does this work??

Light aircraft don't (usually) have an ADC, or any other digitized IAS data, the Garmin 330 Mode S transponder plus GDL 90 GPS source has no IAS input of any kind, I was not aware that IAS was a required input into an ADS-B/C message??

I was referring to my day job, actually mostly night job, Boeing 767. We have been told that IAS is displayed to ATC - I remember thinking when told "FCK that SUCKS!!"

[Capn Bloggs]

our regulations are far from clear, as to the authority of the PIC is concerned, compared to FAR 91.3.

Yes they are. The table of airspace services and requirements in AIP is quite clear. The PIC has no authority, except as granted by the CARs, to bust any speed limit in that table.

All that USA "authority" is just extra rules that the yanks have decided to impose. I wonder if they have lodged differences with ICAO?