SY localiser frequency - readback NOT required

[Ivasrus]

Please don't read back the LOC frequency when it's given as a cross-check by Sydney Director.

AIP requires a readback of radio navigation aid frequency instructions. In most circumstances, Director is not giving it as an instruction, just a check. And hopefully not for too much longer.

Yours,
Ivasrus

[Dropt McGutz]

I didn't read it back once and got chipped by Director who said that it was required. So on that basis, I've always read it back.

[Capn Bloggs]

Sama Sama "cancel speed restrictions below 10k". I simply acknowledged one day and got bollocked for not reading that back. I then bollocked her via her supervisor (via email).

Far too much verbal diarrhoea on the airwaves these days...

[Ken Borough]

Far too much verbal diarrhoea on the airwaves these days..

Especially from an Emirates chappie who insists on including the word 'altitude' when his service is assigned a new level. His read-back sounds something like "Emirates 413 to descend to altitude 3000".

[Captain Dart]

Flying for an Asian airline in and out of Oz, I have been told by Australian ATC to read back the following:

1. The assigned Ground frequency after receiving clearance on Delivery

2. 'Cleared xx miles left/right of track' after requesting and and being granted a weather deviation.

Is it just me or is Australian ATC getting more and more 'anal'? The amount of yap on the frequencies lately is getting like the States but with about one hundredth of the traffic!

[framer]

It drives me bananas flying in and out of SE asia where everyone seems to read back all the bollocks but doesn't read back the really important stuff.
I would have read-back the frequency but won't now....thanks for the heads up

[Cypher]

Who do I complain to when I enviably get bollocked by Director (and probably then the Captain) for not reading back the ILS frequency..?

[TROJAN764]

I never read it back and have never been criticised for this. Also, there is no requirement to read back the second 'behind' when told by TWR to (for example) 'behind the Jetstar A380, line up RWY 34 left, behind.'

[Capn Bloggs]

Dart,

In fairness to ATC, those two items are mandatory readbacks. You have to readback frequency change instructions and clearances:

AIP GEN 4:
4.4 Read‐Back Requirements
4.4.1 Pilots must transmit a correct read‐back of ATC clearances, instructions and information which are transmitted by voice. For other than Item a., only key elements of the following clearances, instructions, or information must be read back ensuring sufficient detail is included to indicate compliance:
a. an ATC route clearance in its entirety, and any amendments;
b. en route holding instructions;
c. any route and holding point specified in a taxi clearance;
d. any clearances or instructions to hold short of, enter, land on, conditional line‐up on, wait, take‐off from, cross, taxi or backtrack on, any runway;
e. any approach clearance;
f. assigned runway, altimeter settings directed to specific aircraft, radio and radio navigation aid frequency instructions;
Note: An “expectation” of the runway to be used is not to be read back.
g. SSR codes, data link logon codes;
h. level instructions, direction of turn, heading and speed instructions.

Item F may also include the SYD LLZ freq...

[Going Boeing]

I appreciate that Ivasrus is letting us know what is required in Sydney but for pilots it's a problem remembering the individual local procedures at all the ports that they fly into - eg Singapore require POB & Transponder code on first contact at the FIR boundary plus readback of everything in a clearance whereas other ports just require readback of just the essential elements of a clearance.
It would be simpler and safer to have standard procedures in use worldwide.

[Angle of Attack]

Definitely no requirement to readback two behinds as per ATC, Trojan is correct, don't have a link but its in the AIP's, just checked it a few weeks ago.

As for localiser frequency I have been prompted a few times for not reading it back in Sydney. I see what you mean about it as a check but at the end of the day they are instructing you to use that runway are they not? As in they are checking that your ATC instruction for the appropriate runway has been correctly interpreted by you?

Don't get me wrong I don't want to read it back, its a pain in the you know what!

[blueloo]

Having just listened to the ATC instruction:


ATC words were: "Confirm" Localiser frequency 34L 110.1


If they are saying confirm, that is an instruction. Requiring a readback.

[Capn Bloggs]

Readback Section in Jepps

ATC COMMS Section 6.3 (currently Page ATC AU913).

[Altimeters]

Quoted by AoA
As for localiser frequency I have been prompted a few times for not reading it back in Sydney. I see what you mean about it as a check but at the end of the day they are instructing you to use that runway are they not? As in they are checking that your ATC instruction for the appropriate runway has been correctly interpreted by you?

But they are also giving you the runway to be used. To confirm what SY APP has told you.

SY DIR: "descend to 4000 runway 34L, localiser check 110.1"

So to me that says that the localiser frequency isn't required but you have been given a runway and therefore that IS to be read back but the check is just that...a check. Perhaps I'm looking too much into it. I tend to do that with air law.

[blueloo]

Just listened again:

This time ATC said "Descend 6000 34R localiser 109.3"


Sounds like an instruction to me.

[framer]

There is something to the statement "we fly all over the world" .
If there was one global ATC readback requirement booklet that we could all learn and then apply everywhere it would be simple. I think most international pilots just come up with their own set of things that they will read-back that cover them in 99% of the places they fly. I know I used to do that with POB and qnh when I was flying into places where about half wanted it and half didn't.....I just gave it to them all because at that stage my priority was learning the new jet I was flying. Now that I have that squared away to a degree I devote more time to the little things. It's impossible to know it all in this job. (Not saying you shouldn't try)
Framer

[How's it Hanging]

As someone who operates about 300 sectors into YSSY each year, my memory of it is initially, when parallel operations started, a readback of the localiser frequency was required. However that did not last very long and ATC asked that it not be read back. I think that might have been done by a memo to operators from ASA before it was amended elsewhere.

In the last few years I cannot recall hearing anyone asked to readback the frequency.

I do have a question for ATC out there though. Non-jets are normally on a heading or turning to a heading when changing to director. The normal requirement is to state the heading when being vectored and changing frequency, but I notice on change to director a lot do not say the heading and director does not seem to care one way or the other. What is the ATC point of view of this?

[walaper]

Sy ATC even put out a "brochure" a few years ago about read back requirements on director and heading/alt were the only required readback items as the rest was advisory.

[Angle of Attack]

Until its in the AIP's brochures don't count!

[Blogsey]

umm, could someone explain to me: Of all the international Airports I've flown into (20 odd outside Aus), Syd is the only one to clarify their ILS Freq? Why?