Legal ownership of plane
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I've had this problem myself - there is no easy method in New Zealand anyway.
The best I could do was pay a lawyer to search the chattels registers and see if anyone had a lien or caveat or whatever over it.
At least these days the registers are computerised, in those days (80's) were all manual paper records and it wasn't fast or cheap.
The best I could do was pay a lawyer to search the chattels registers and see if anyone had a lien or caveat or whatever over it.
At least these days the registers are computerised, in those days (80's) were all manual paper records and it wasn't fast or cheap.
Last edited by Weekend_Warrior; 19th Jan 2010 at 21:01. Reason: spelling - as usual
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I've also been wanting to know the same thing!
The Certificate of Registration is not a certificate of title. This goes for GA and RA-Aus aircraft.
I can't see anything that can help with this other than a water-tight contract of sale, sort of like the ones you have for aircraft that include carrying seafood etc.
The Certificate of Registration is not a certificate of title. This goes for GA and RA-Aus aircraft.
I can't see anything that can help with this other than a water-tight contract of sale, sort of like the ones you have for aircraft that include carrying seafood etc.
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My last aeroplane purchased from the US came with an Aircraft Bill of Sale via US Department of Transportation and Federal Aviation Administration. This was needed for Australian Customs as well as disposal by the previous owner.
The FAA and the previous owner and myself have a copy.
I also have a bank copy of cash transfer in US funds.
I would use this to test a case of legal ownership in Australia, as would I expect with any subsequent sale to another owner who could rely on my signature on a registered and witnessed Bill of Sale in Australia stating the aircraft is unencumbered.
The next purchaser would have to satisfy himself of any caveat emptor issues that may arise as a subsequence.
CASA detail the Registered Owner, The Registered Operator or the Registered Owner/ Operator. I suppose this with the above Bill of Sale etc would be a reasonable test of ownership.
But I'm not a Lawyer!
The FAA and the previous owner and myself have a copy.
I also have a bank copy of cash transfer in US funds.
I would use this to test a case of legal ownership in Australia, as would I expect with any subsequent sale to another owner who could rely on my signature on a registered and witnessed Bill of Sale in Australia stating the aircraft is unencumbered.
The next purchaser would have to satisfy himself of any caveat emptor issues that may arise as a subsequence.
CASA detail the Registered Owner, The Registered Operator or the Registered Owner/ Operator. I suppose this with the above Bill of Sale etc would be a reasonable test of ownership.
But I'm not a Lawyer!
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I’m thinking that you could use a similar set-up to the contracts used when hiring aircraft from some establishments.
What I’m referring to is sometimes you sign a contract to say that you won’t carry seafood on-board (aka Abalone) when you hire an aircraft. That way, if you do carry it and the aircraft gets confiscated by the authorities, the actual owner will physically lose his aircraft, so by signing the agreement you are leaving yourself open to the owner receiving compensation from you if the aircraft is confiscated (great idea for the owner).
Thus, if you signed a purchase agreement on a used aircraft and the seller indicated in the contract that the aircraft had clear title then you would at least have an avenue to receive compensation from the seller if the aircraft was confiscated by the bank or finance company.
I have often wondered about this particularly when I have sold aircraft in the past as often the purchaser will ask and they are really just relying on your word that the title was clear.
I did hear of a recent sale of an aircraft falling through when the purchaser found out that the aircraft was part of a divorce settlement where the seller only owned 50% after the divorce, so I’m not sure how that one would have worked out had he handed over his cash.
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planemad55 - This is a thorny one. In Australia, there is no "Register of Encumbrances" applicable to aircraft, as there is to registered road vehicles and land titles. Some of the thorny parts have been dealt with by a revision of CASR 47, which basically registers the "owner" of the aircraft (and therefore the "responsible party" under aviation laws).
CASR 47 does not deal with encumbrances created by financing of the aircraft. Financing arrangements are private documents, not public documents, in this case.
A finance company effectively owns the aircraft, if it is holding the aircraft as security, for the funds advanced to purchase it.
However, sometimes finance houses utilise other forms of security, such as land, and not the aircraft itself, when advancing finance - and the actual aircraft ownership in this case, becomes murkier.
The offically-registered owner (on the CASA registration) could sell the aircraft (with money owing on it) - and the finance company would not have any say in it, because the finance company security is related to other property.
The best thing to do is to check with CASA initially, then ask the seller who has financed the aircraft, and if there is any outstanding monies (encumbrances) owing on it. Then, check with the named finance house as to any encumbrances on the particular aircraft. Then, get the seller to sign a declaration, that there are no monies owing on it, that he has full rights and title to the aircraft, and that no other parties have any financial interest in the aircraft .
By doing this, you can't stop a crook from selling you an aircraft with money owing on it - but you do have a legal right to sue him for fraud, later on, when the rightful owner appears, and claims title to the aircraft.
The bottom line is, "caveat emptor". Taking all the basic necessary steps to check for encumbrance, stolen items, or fraud - and you can do little more. There really does need to be an extension of the "Register of Encumbrances" to all aircraft, machinery, and movable items over a certain value. However, it isn't going to happen any time soon.
Some relevant reading here. The "background" page is most relevant, in the first link.
CASR 47 revision .. http://www.casa.gov.au/newrules/part...d/dp0106ms.pdf
CASR 47 - current .. Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Home
CASR 47 does not deal with encumbrances created by financing of the aircraft. Financing arrangements are private documents, not public documents, in this case.
A finance company effectively owns the aircraft, if it is holding the aircraft as security, for the funds advanced to purchase it.
However, sometimes finance houses utilise other forms of security, such as land, and not the aircraft itself, when advancing finance - and the actual aircraft ownership in this case, becomes murkier.
The offically-registered owner (on the CASA registration) could sell the aircraft (with money owing on it) - and the finance company would not have any say in it, because the finance company security is related to other property.
The best thing to do is to check with CASA initially, then ask the seller who has financed the aircraft, and if there is any outstanding monies (encumbrances) owing on it. Then, check with the named finance house as to any encumbrances on the particular aircraft. Then, get the seller to sign a declaration, that there are no monies owing on it, that he has full rights and title to the aircraft, and that no other parties have any financial interest in the aircraft .
By doing this, you can't stop a crook from selling you an aircraft with money owing on it - but you do have a legal right to sue him for fraud, later on, when the rightful owner appears, and claims title to the aircraft.
The bottom line is, "caveat emptor". Taking all the basic necessary steps to check for encumbrance, stolen items, or fraud - and you can do little more. There really does need to be an extension of the "Register of Encumbrances" to all aircraft, machinery, and movable items over a certain value. However, it isn't going to happen any time soon.
Some relevant reading here. The "background" page is most relevant, in the first link.
CASR 47 revision .. http://www.casa.gov.au/newrules/part...d/dp0106ms.pdf
CASR 47 - current .. Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Home
If in New Zealand you could check out:
http://www.ppsr.govt.nz/cms
This is a Govt website that will provide details of property that has a security interest registered over it. There's no guarantee that your 'plane/train/auto money lender will have registered here but it's a good start.
This site (Thomas & Co:- PPSA and PPSR Explained) explains a little more.
Cheers, P.
http://www.ppsr.govt.nz/cms
This is a Govt website that will provide details of property that has a security interest registered over it. There's no guarantee that your 'plane/train/auto money lender will have registered here but it's a good start.
This site (Thomas & Co:- PPSA and PPSR Explained) explains a little more.
Cheers, P.
