Float plane flipped Gold Coast
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Clint,
If the water rudder cable snapped and the plane is upside down then the water rudders will be in the up/retracted position (observing the laws of gravity)....not pointing towards the sky in the down position. In the first few pics they are in the down position and actually defying gravity. The reason I asked about the position of the water rudders is that they should have been retracted before the start of the attempted take off. If they had been retracted at the start of the take off run then it is more than likely that the plane would not have been dragging the crabpot during the takeoff run.
Many experienced float pilots have left the water rudders in the down position for the occasional takeoff, Once up on the step they tend to flap around and can cause damage to the transom of the float rather than affecting the directional control of the aircraft. For crosswind takeoffs the water rudders are usually left in the down position during the power up phase and retracted once the air rudder becomes effective.
Goldy,
I agree that age means nothing...some pilots start flying at 16 some start at 50..... but experience is everything. Thats why most operators have min experience requirements rather than min age requirements.
If the water rudder cable snapped and the plane is upside down then the water rudders will be in the up/retracted position (observing the laws of gravity)....not pointing towards the sky in the down position. In the first few pics they are in the down position and actually defying gravity. The reason I asked about the position of the water rudders is that they should have been retracted before the start of the attempted take off. If they had been retracted at the start of the take off run then it is more than likely that the plane would not have been dragging the crabpot during the takeoff run.
Many experienced float pilots have left the water rudders in the down position for the occasional takeoff, Once up on the step they tend to flap around and can cause damage to the transom of the float rather than affecting the directional control of the aircraft. For crosswind takeoffs the water rudders are usually left in the down position during the power up phase and retracted once the air rudder becomes effective.
Goldy,
I agree that age means nothing...some pilots start flying at 16 some start at 50..... but experience is everything. Thats why most operators have min experience requirements rather than min age requirements.
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Snags
Pleased to heat everyone is OK. Have to agree with a couple of posters about the water rudders. Don't forget water rudders are also spring loaded to keep them in the water for max efficiency especially on x wind take offs until the aircraft gets on the step. Once on the step the air rudder takes over directional control and the water rudders are retracted. I would have thought if ELQ was on the step when it picked up the crab pot line, the only thing to snag the line would be the water rudders. Assuming they were down, they should have flicked up allowing the line to drop off. In many hours of float flying the only times I have snagged any sort of rope is at idle speed or there abouts with the water rudders down. Can't see how else it can be done, Floaties draw very little water when full bottle on the step. BR
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If the crab pot became tangled in the rudder/s I would think it would be tailling behind the aircraft in flight rather than banging around on the outside of the aircraft somewhere as described?
Di
Di
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I don't know Di, those cray pots are pretty heavy and would have quite a lot of drag in the water, kind of like a sea anchor.
just heard the news, one of the pax is an old mate from a while back. punctured lung for one, nothing major. It is a slightly extravagant way to let the world know that even at 31 you can pull a 21yo bit o fluff.
Upside down in the water, good work to get the old folks out.
I presume ELQ the old girl is owned by the insurance company once again now and insurance requirements go up again.
What kind of floats are they Just Curious?
Hope the lad gets back on the horse again.
I presume ELQ the old girl is owned by the insurance company once again now and insurance requirements go up again.
What kind of floats are they Just Curious?
Hope the lad gets back on the horse again.
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Great Spin
This is the greatest spin story of all time! Where is the crab pot? Not to be seen in any of the pictures...
Seems to me the big point is being missed, running into a sandbank at low tide! It happened on exactly the same sandbank 15 years ago because the guy didn't know the waterways well enough.
No crabs were harmed in the making of this story...
Seems to me the big point is being missed, running into a sandbank at low tide! It happened on exactly the same sandbank 15 years ago because the guy didn't know the waterways well enough.
No crabs were harmed in the making of this story...
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LLD. Thats exactly what I thought but if you take a look at the pics you can see quite a large dent in the lower ventral fin...pretty sure the flip would not have caused any damage to the lower half of the aircraft unless the whole tail section has moved downwards due to the impact of the tail fin on the sandbar (ie bent spine). Am surprised that the pilot did not notice a lack of performance during the takeoff and abort sooner (as CC stated it must have been like towing a sea anchor).
As for the pilot getting back in the air...unfortunately, post accident the considerable rise in insurance premiums are usually the deciding factor.
As for the pilot getting back in the air...unfortunately, post accident the considerable rise in insurance premiums are usually the deciding factor.
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To fly or not
Can't possible see how a reasonably loaded 185 would be able to fly dragging a crab pot or anything else for that matter.
If the pot was snagged on one float there is no way known you could even keep the machine in straight line let alone lift off
If the pot was snagged on one float there is no way known you could even keep the machine in straight line let alone lift off
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Well said BR the whole crabpot story does seem like BS but I wasnt there so im not going to say either way.
After looking at the pics for a second time pic 4 clearly shows the ding on the ventral fin I was talking about. Same pic also shows some nice big creases in the empenage no doubt caused by impact so not all that unlikely that the ventral fin damage i spoke of in previous posts was also caused by impact.
That would come down to pilot experience and we better not question that. As previously stated, Experience does count...Last week I was airborne before the sandbank with exactly the same load on board....but last week there was a 15kt headwind today there is only 5....
After looking at the pics for a second time pic 4 clearly shows the ding on the ventral fin I was talking about. Same pic also shows some nice big creases in the empenage no doubt caused by impact so not all that unlikely that the ventral fin damage i spoke of in previous posts was also caused by impact.
Seems to me the big point is being missed, running into a sandbank at low tide! It happened on exactly the same sandbank 15 years ago because the guy didn't know the waterways well enough.
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Age does not equal experience, and experience does not equal hours.
If you run a floatie into shallow water and bump sand she slows down, then she bites and slows down real fast then you have an 'experience'.
If you run a floatie into shallow water and bump sand she slows down, then she bites and slows down real fast then you have an 'experience'.
dash 27
ELQ the 1968 surviver
With more lives than a lucky cat, ELQ has risen from far worse.
ELQ the 1968 surviver
With more lives than a lucky cat, ELQ has risen from far worse.
Down on the west coast of Tasmania in 1987, ELQ ran out of noise near Sarah Island.
Two years late, ditto, between Green Island and Cairns.
Believe it or not the driver was the same on each occasion. HL, (aka 'Last Light'), forgot to put the cap back on after refueling, due yabbering too much to the waiting pax.
Our man was also an accomplished piano man, of the jazz variety. Gave the floats away for a while. Went back to Jupiters. If he left the lid up on the goanna, seemed there was little risk of running out of noise.
Is there a report yet on this accident with the collision with that shallow sand bar at low tide?
Did the company get over Vh-ELQ kissing the sand bar and get back on the horse and continue or did they fold up shop? I hope they got over it all OK after the media feeding frenzy.
How many float hours do you need for the insurance companies to say you are experienced as a water plane pilot and offer much lower premiums?
Did the company get over Vh-ELQ kissing the sand bar and get back on the horse and continue or did they fold up shop? I hope they got over it all OK after the media feeding frenzy.
How many float hours do you need for the insurance companies to say you are experienced as a water plane pilot and offer much lower premiums?
Any idea when it should be out then?
Interesting from their web site,
" Our Aircraft :Cloud 9 Seaplanes operates a 5-passenger seat Cessna aircraft. We have invested in the latest equipment to ensure the safety and comfort of all our passengers." A quick search of the aircraft in question VH-ELQ would hardly agree with that comment with it being a 1968 machine.
But may be this person wrote that, also from the website, "About Us : Cloud9 Seaplanes is owned and operated by the oldest flying family in Australia, dating back to 1915."
Well, i am sue would be factual of some distant relative, why else would you publish stuff like that, but what a bizar statement. Really Bizar.
Maybe I could invite a 3rd great nephew in law of Wilbur Wright to invest $1 into my scenic flight company and out do it and better that statement, well it is a Rumour Network here right
Gezz, I was not trying to sound hard, I just giggled. I hope they go strong and update their fleet to 1970's 
Even a aviator form 90 years ago would be happy with that.
At the end of the day, a lot of money and head aches would be in a operation like this I would think and often mortgaged the house, no one wants to see that screwed up over a crab pot.
I ant to see if the accident report will try to ban crab pots at that resort as a reaction. Or even better, see in the regs later in the year, Do not hit crab pots, penalty 50 units.
1915
Interesting from their web site,
" Our Aircraft :Cloud 9 Seaplanes operates a 5-passenger seat Cessna aircraft. We have invested in the latest equipment to ensure the safety and comfort of all our passengers." A quick search of the aircraft in question VH-ELQ would hardly agree with that comment with it being a 1968 machine.
But may be this person wrote that, also from the website, "About Us : Cloud9 Seaplanes is owned and operated by the oldest flying family in Australia, dating back to 1915."
Well, i am sue would be factual of some distant relative, why else would you publish stuff like that, but what a bizar statement. Really Bizar.
Maybe I could invite a 3rd great nephew in law of Wilbur Wright to invest $1 into my scenic flight company and out do it and better that statement, well it is a Rumour Network here right
Gezz, I was not trying to sound hard, I just giggled.
I hope they go strong and update their fleet to 1970's Even a aviator form 90 years ago would be happy with that. At the end of the day, a lot of money and head aches would be in a operation like this I would think and often mortgaged the house, no one wants to see that screwed up over a crab pot.
I ant to see if the accident report will try to ban crab pots at that resort as a reaction. Or even better, see in the regs later in the year, Do not hit crab pots, penalty 50 units.
1915
Last edited by Ejector; 21st Mar 2010 at 15:15.
Well that is good news, wish them the best of luck to pick up and get going again. One would think the collision with the sand bar did the damage, the crab pot sounds a bit craby (tongue and check). **** happens I understand sometimes. I remember reading online about CASA making that Sydney operator making a STC for a quick release for a float C206 called VH-WHI so that if or when it flipped on take off or landing with the flaps down one could open the rear doors easily. I wonder if all C206 on floats in oz had to have that so they are not flying coffins or just that Sydney operator?
(tongue and check). **** happens I understand sometimes. I remember reading online about CASA making that Sydney operator making a STC for a quick release for a float C206 called VH-WHI so that if or when it flipped on take off or landing with the flaps down one could open the rear doors easily. I wonder if all C206 on floats in oz had to have that so they are not flying coffins or just that Sydney operator?
