Merged: QF 10 Air Return ex-Singapore 17 Dec 09
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Qantas Engine Failure Terrifies Passengers
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
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We will be ferrying VH-OJQ to Sydney tomorrow (Sunday 20th) following the engine change. I believe (to be reconfirmed) that we'll be carrying the busted engine on the 5th pod. Sched arrival in SYD is at 16:30, flight no. is QF6029. Photographers - get out there and get shots. Remember, the 5th pod is on the left hand side as in the above picture.
My info is that the engine had a bearing failure, but that's from an initial assessment by engineers on the night, so story could change. I was also told by one of the pilots that the S/O hand flying at the time did a sterling job. A friend in P class told me later they had no idea in that cabin that there was a problem until the "returning to SIN" PA was made.
This event is a good example of how QF does things right when machinery breaks, as it does from time to time..
My info is that the engine had a bearing failure, but that's from an initial assessment by engineers on the night, so story could change. I was also told by one of the pilots that the S/O hand flying at the time did a sterling job. A friend in P class told me later they had no idea in that cabin that there was a problem until the "returning to SIN" PA was made.
This event is a good example of how QF does things right when machinery breaks, as it does from time to time..
Bottums Up
Originally Posted by peuce
Can I assume that a B747 has a permanent "hard point" on the outboard wing for carrying spares?
Spoke to one of the pilots who said that the engine failure was a "non event". Vibration from the engine felt like light continuous turbulence, no fire warning (but of course if oil leaked from the bearing there could have been some illumination from the tailpipe). The engine was shutdown and a clearance obtained to return to SIN. Captain made five very detailed PA's to pax to keep them informed during the return so my source was amazed at the things that were subsequently "quoted" by the journos. LAME in SIN said that the ACMS report indicated that the HP shaft had "moved" and external inspection supported the theory of a bearing failure on the HP shaft.
Someone should tell the journos that Dixon is long gone and there is no longer any need to continue their anti-QF rhetoric,
Correct Clarrie, the attachment point is inner left wing between #2 engine and the fuselage. When fitted, it's amazing how close the nacelle is to the tarmac. 5th Pod carriage has not been certified for RVSM so most of the flight will be at F270-F280. Very thirsty on fuel, a bit noisier in the cabin with a slight "rumble" throughout due to the disturbed airflow around/through the pod (fan section removed and plug inserted to prevent airflow through the core).
Someone should tell the journos that Dixon is long gone and there is no longer any need to continue their anti-QF rhetoric,
Correct Clarrie, the attachment point is inner left wing between #2 engine and the fuselage. When fitted, it's amazing how close the nacelle is to the tarmac. 5th Pod carriage has not been certified for RVSM so most of the flight will be at F270-F280. Very thirsty on fuel, a bit noisier in the cabin with a slight "rumble" throughout due to the disturbed airflow around/through the pod (fan section removed and plug inserted to prevent airflow through the core).
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Yep, QF6029 confirmed to be 5th engine ferry, arriving SYD 16:30 Sunday arvo, provisionally. Speed is limited to M0.78 but I think the ETA is taking that into account. However we will probably bumble around at Changi for an unplanned 30 mins while someone figures out how to let 3 x QF flight-crew access an aircraft on a remote bay at 5am. Security, you see....
So photo enthusiasts, please be patient if we are a bit late as there is no ability to speed up inflight!
BTW, having done one of these before, yes, the flight is planned at non-RVSM levels. Howevere once inside Aus we can get higher if ATC can achieve the increased separation required between RVSM and non-RVSM capable aircraft.
So photo enthusiasts, please be patient if we are a bit late as there is no ability to speed up inflight!
BTW, having done one of these before, yes, the flight is planned at non-RVSM levels. Howevere once inside Aus we can get higher if ATC can achieve the increased separation required between RVSM and non-RVSM capable aircraft.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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VPod fitting
On QF aircraft, only Roller and Pratt powered aircraft are / were certified to carry a VPod. GE powered aircraft don't have the hard points fitted. Other airlines also have certification but not every one pays to certify on their fleets. BA is one that has certified them but don't know of others. In the '60, '70's and '80's this used to be very common on QF and BA aircraft (engines were not all that reliable in those eras). Now very rare to see.
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Yeah, I remember seeing a 5th pod on a 707 (most probably Qantas) back in the 70's or 80's I think. I can understand 707's carrying an engine under the wing, but why wouldn't a 747 carry it home in the cargo hold? (assuming no pax on the ferry home, of course.) Doesn't it fit inside?
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Having experienced a flight carrying a fifth pod all the way to FRA, the delay it caused to the scheduled service made me wonder what other options are there?
The flight was initially delayed 4 or 5 hours while the pod was fitted, then the flight was much slower due to the pod, then it needed to refuel between SIN and FRA at DBX.
Are engine changes upline infrequent enough to not justify positioning spare engines at major hubs, such as SIN, LHR and LAX?
If the engine won't fit in the hold, is it too cost prohibitive to send it on a freighter or is it a time factor rather than cost?
The flight was initially delayed 4 or 5 hours while the pod was fitted, then the flight was much slower due to the pod, then it needed to refuel between SIN and FRA at DBX.
Are engine changes upline infrequent enough to not justify positioning spare engines at major hubs, such as SIN, LHR and LAX?
If the engine won't fit in the hold, is it too cost prohibitive to send it on a freighter or is it a time factor rather than cost?
Last edited by twiggs; 19th Dec 2009 at 23:00.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Vpod versus Freight
B747 engine can only be freighted on a DC10 or MD 11 or B747 main deck freighter, its too big for lower lobe hold of either. Freighter availablity is the main factor, much quicker turnaround when freighted but extremly expensive south bound. VPod saves time if freighter not immediately available going to where engine change is required. QF always want aircraft back in service ASAP.
A380 also requires a B747 main deck freighter to ship a spare engine. All QF A380 engines are shipped on SQ main deck freighter from new and overhaul.
A380 also requires a B747 main deck freighter to ship a spare engine. All QF A380 engines are shipped on SQ main deck freighter from new and overhaul.
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If there was no fire indication then why did the crew return to SIN?
Genuine question and in no way a judgement on crew actions.
Would the fuel burn on 3 be too great, flying at lower than planned levels?
Genuine question and in no way a judgement on crew actions.
Would the fuel burn on 3 be too great, flying at lower than planned levels?
Maybe the Captain had CAO 20.6 in mind when he made his decision!
If the failure occurred towards top of climb, Singapore would have been the closer airport (in lieu of Jakarta or Bali)
230nm circles, Singapore, Jakarta, Bali!
If the failure occurred towards top of climb, Singapore would have been the closer airport (in lieu of Jakarta or Bali)
230nm circles, Singapore, Jakarta, Bali!
