Is it to late ,age wise ?
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G'day Prophead123,
At the age of 36 I too have decided to give it a crack!
No flight experience other than large amounts of travel that now keeps the interest in the current occupation. Hence the realisation that it is the travel and experience of flight which motivates me.
Therefore, throw your heart into your passion as I am, and have a strategy over the next 5 or so years. I too have a back-up plan if the career does not eventuate and after much due diligence, realise that nothing is for certain in aviation.
It does concern me, as it appears for many others, the trend of eradicating terms and conditions of employment. Well this mindset appears to be widespread across many industries and ultimately it will be up to the individual to agree or disagree as unfortunately there in no effective concensus to be able to compete with this strategy until demand outstrips supply once more.
As to remuneration with a finite number of years to achieve a Return on Investment with regards to training costs, give yourself a 5 year plan to recover costs as well as being able not to compromise your current standard of living. What I believe I can offer a potential employer is not only skills achieved profesionally, but also a maturity and a well refined decision making process.
The support from my wife is the best incentive I have to pursue these goals, and given time and patience, oppurtunities will present. I also believe in having no regrets, as my worst case scenario is to be able to enjoy the left seat with family and friends for recreation and pleasure. It is what you make of your opportunities that influence the factors that determine your pathway.
Networking is the hurdle that I am currently focussed on as it has now become more of a requirement than ever before. If there is a person or personsn who are able to mentor or even provide an insight to their own challenges and achievements of becoming professional within the industry, I would be grateful for any information, regardless if they are currently operational or now enjoying the leisure of flying at their own pace.
Cheers,
AoF
At the age of 36 I too have decided to give it a crack!
No flight experience other than large amounts of travel that now keeps the interest in the current occupation. Hence the realisation that it is the travel and experience of flight which motivates me.
Therefore, throw your heart into your passion as I am, and have a strategy over the next 5 or so years. I too have a back-up plan if the career does not eventuate and after much due diligence, realise that nothing is for certain in aviation.
It does concern me, as it appears for many others, the trend of eradicating terms and conditions of employment. Well this mindset appears to be widespread across many industries and ultimately it will be up to the individual to agree or disagree as unfortunately there in no effective concensus to be able to compete with this strategy until demand outstrips supply once more.
As to remuneration with a finite number of years to achieve a Return on Investment with regards to training costs, give yourself a 5 year plan to recover costs as well as being able not to compromise your current standard of living. What I believe I can offer a potential employer is not only skills achieved profesionally, but also a maturity and a well refined decision making process.
The support from my wife is the best incentive I have to pursue these goals, and given time and patience, oppurtunities will present. I also believe in having no regrets, as my worst case scenario is to be able to enjoy the left seat with family and friends for recreation and pleasure. It is what you make of your opportunities that influence the factors that determine your pathway.
Networking is the hurdle that I am currently focussed on as it has now become more of a requirement than ever before. If there is a person or personsn who are able to mentor or even provide an insight to their own challenges and achievements of becoming professional within the industry, I would be grateful for any information, regardless if they are currently operational or now enjoying the leisure of flying at their own pace.
Cheers,
AoF
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I'm earning around half of what I earned as an I.T. consultant, so be prepared for a (possible) pay cut, along with everything that that entails, and being away from home a lot. There are sacrifices that you (and wife/kids) will have to make. I've been very lucky there as well.
On the plus side, I'm much happier in this career than my last one.
On the plus side, I'm much happier in this career than my last one.
I only got started with my trainining this year (aged 30) and with the same background. The benefit as I see it is the ability to complete my training part time and be debt free once qualified.
There's much to be said for making money, but if it makes you miserable ...
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I echo that - I'm glad someone finally put some numbers around minimums with age (obviously NOTHING is guaranteed I know that). However, atleast its great to see that it can happen. 
Thread Starter
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Wow thanks guys! for all your responses
As previously mentioned ,its great to get all your opinions ,so my battle plan is to start my training early 2010,and pay for it as she goes till I progress up to a CPL and at my age I hope to become a flying instructor ,I think I will leave returning back to Southern Africa for a while not much good news coming out of there .
thanks to you all .
by the way have a happy Xmas and a great new year
thanks to you all .
by the way have a happy Xmas and a great new year
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“yes I've heard that many time before however at the end of the day if attempting to join QF, VB or J* at age 40 with only say 2000 hrs on the clock is a waste of time, it would be nice to know earlier than later.”
What absolute crap.
“A rule of thumb is 100 per year of age, i.e a 30 year old should have 3000 hours. Once you hit 40 I believe 500 hours per year above. so 41 = 4500 etc.
At 45 you should have at least 6500 hours.”
What nonsense. Where does this “rule of thumb” come from? P
With all due respect, the opinions of those suggesting age matters are bollocks.
Age once was a factor in the old days, QF,TN,AN. AN and TN even stated such.
These days, it is HIGHLY illegal to discriminate against age no matter how few hours you have and more importantly, it is a mindset that is no longer in play. Except maybe at outdated airlines like QF.
Do you think Tiger/Jetstar/Skywest etc give a hoot of you are 48 with several thousand hours? I doubt it. Do you think mr knuttsenburger gives a rats ass about age when he orders his G-EX or G550. Nup.
Guys, go for it.
QF may not happen but there is a big wide world out there beyond the rat. And if it doesn’t work in oz, do what I did, ditch oz and go OS. There are loads of jobs out here and you don’t need to do a bodgy year 12 maths course to get
What absolute crap.
“A rule of thumb is 100 per year of age, i.e a 30 year old should have 3000 hours. Once you hit 40 I believe 500 hours per year above. so 41 = 4500 etc.
At 45 you should have at least 6500 hours.”
What nonsense. Where does this “rule of thumb” come from? P
With all due respect, the opinions of those suggesting age matters are bollocks.
Age once was a factor in the old days, QF,TN,AN. AN and TN even stated such.
These days, it is HIGHLY illegal to discriminate against age no matter how few hours you have and more importantly, it is a mindset that is no longer in play. Except maybe at outdated airlines like QF.
Do you think Tiger/Jetstar/Skywest etc give a hoot of you are 48 with several thousand hours? I doubt it. Do you think mr knuttsenburger gives a rats ass about age when he orders his G-EX or G550. Nup.
Guys, go for it.
QF may not happen but there is a big wide world out there beyond the rat. And if it doesn’t work in oz, do what I did, ditch oz and go OS. There are loads of jobs out here and you don’t need to do a bodgy year 12 maths course to get
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Some employers explicitly state maximum ages either at time of contracting or expiration of contract, some simply state 'experience commensurate with age'. Others dont give a tinkers. There is no global personnel department promulgating universal rules on this matter. As was said above, if you narrow your sights to Australia you narrow your options.
In Australia it appears employers will often monitor the colour and sex of employees in an effort at compliance but with the age of employees they apparently are more indifferent to compliance as there is little to no enforcement. In other countries employers are free to hire who they want and it is not always the case they will fall into the younger the better category.
In the recent hiring boom, which I reckon started to end circa March 2008 and maybe 6 months later in Australia, I met plenty of pilots, many with quite limited experience and of ages significantly more advanced than all those previously mentioned, who gained the employment they were seeking. Of course they did not limit their options to Qantas or Australia.
In Australia it appears employers will often monitor the colour and sex of employees in an effort at compliance but with the age of employees they apparently are more indifferent to compliance as there is little to no enforcement. In other countries employers are free to hire who they want and it is not always the case they will fall into the younger the better category.
In the recent hiring boom, which I reckon started to end circa March 2008 and maybe 6 months later in Australia, I met plenty of pilots, many with quite limited experience and of ages significantly more advanced than all those previously mentioned, who gained the employment they were seeking. Of course they did not limit their options to Qantas or Australia.
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"Some employers explicitly state maximum ages either at time of contracting or expiration of contract,"
Which airlines? Care to name one?
"If airlines don't discriminate based on age, then why would your comment be valid?"
I included this line to indicate my opinion of QF and its "system" of recruitment. "Except maybe at outdated airlines like QF."
Note the word except. Too subtle maybe?
Which airlines? Care to name one?
"If airlines don't discriminate based on age, then why would your comment be valid?"
I included this line to indicate my opinion of QF and its "system" of recruitment. "Except maybe at outdated airlines like QF."
Note the word except. Too subtle maybe?
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Question
AnQrKa
Why the aggro?
This thread is one of the very few in D&G that has remained positive and hasn't been hijacked by anyone trying to prove some dubious "point".
Why not leave it alone?
Why the aggro?
This thread is one of the very few in D&G that has remained positive and hasn't been hijacked by anyone trying to prove some dubious "point".
Why not leave it alone?
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People on here who think age doesnt matter, are complete morons. Its called the cockpit gradient. Having a 28yo captain and 50 something fo could spell major problems when the proverbial hits the fan. I know of a handful of more than capable 45-55 pilots who got knocked back by an airline due to this cockpit gradient excuse.
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Bo777
I must be one of those
then, as I don't think that age is an issue. 
Also, the people who employed both you and I must also be "complete morons" (Bo777 and I work for the same company).
I was employed by Qlink when I was 45. Last year Qlink employed quite a few people in either their late 30's or early 40's.
While I agree that it is possible that an older FO could give a younger Captain "cockpit gradient" issues during an emergency, I'd like to think that the professionalism of both our Captains and FO's wouldn't allow this to happen.
I'm guessing that Qlink agree.
DIVOSH!
complete morons
Also, the people who employed both you and I must also be "complete morons" (Bo777 and I work for the same company).
I was employed by Qlink when I was 45. Last year Qlink employed quite a few people in either their late 30's or early 40's.
While I agree that it is possible that an older FO could give a younger Captain "cockpit gradient" issues during an emergency, I'd like to think that the professionalism of both our Captains and FO's wouldn't allow this to happen.
I'm guessing that Qlink agree.
DIVOSH!
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Divosh
... well if the shoe fits? Previous years had seen unprecedented levels in the shortage of capable or moron pilots. Hence why we see them occupying the right-hand seat now. Prophead if I were you and I'm not, I'd be investing my $$$ in something that will give a positive return.
Ps Mavrick alert
I hope I get the ultimate pleasure of having to fly with your ego one day divosh.
I must be one of those
Ps Mavrick alert
I meet the required minimas for J* (2400 TT at age 46), and think that I'd be successful if I were to apply.
Last edited by Bo777; 18th Dec 2009 at 05:53.
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Bo777
Funny post!
I got no problems with you having a different opinion.
It's pretty sad, though, that ALL you can do is reply with personal attacks, or this statement:
which doesn't even make sense.
Anyway, happy to debate the issue of Age vs. Cockpit gradient. Let me know when you can debate a topic rationally.
Cheerio,
DIVOSH
P.S.
Hardly a big ego to say that I
. Especially in the context of where I said it.
I got no problems with you having a different opinion.
It's pretty sad, though, that ALL you can do is reply with personal attacks, or this statement:
Previous years had seen unprecedented levels in the shortage of capable or moron pilots.
Anyway, happy to debate the issue of Age vs. Cockpit gradient. Let me know when you can debate a topic rationally.
Cheerio,
DIVOSH
P.S.
Hardly a big ego to say that I
think that I'd be successful if I were to apply
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Divosh
Sorry if you took the moron comment personally, but then again it was you that took it personally. If you re-read my previous posts the point might just sink in ... Age is taken into consideration during the recruitment process. You took it personally, believing I had meant it in a negative light ... preconceived idea. It can however work both ways both a negative or positive depending on what the company wants. In my example the company (not the link) raised the cockpit gradient issue during the interview and the age of the candiate was seen as a negative factor.
During 07-08, especially beginning 08 when recruitment was crazy management to some extent really didnt care who got in, actually they may have had some preference to mature people knowing that the majors where hiring they wanted some employee stability (a mate who didnt even have the minimum requirements even got in). Hence my tongue in cheek comment "capable or moron pilots" where hired just to fill the right hand seat.
There you go my own personal accounts. An appropriate positive cockpit gradient is what you want at all times ... not a pissing contest because someones got a point to prove.
Sorry if you took the moron comment personally, but then again it was you that took it personally. If you re-read my previous posts the point might just sink in ... Age is taken into consideration during the recruitment process. You took it personally, believing I had meant it in a negative light ... preconceived idea. It can however work both ways both a negative or positive depending on what the company wants. In my example the company (not the link) raised the cockpit gradient issue during the interview and the age of the candiate was seen as a negative factor.
During 07-08, especially beginning 08 when recruitment was crazy management to some extent really didnt care who got in, actually they may have had some preference to mature people knowing that the majors where hiring they wanted some employee stability (a mate who didnt even have the minimum requirements even got in
). Hence my tongue in cheek comment "capable or moron pilots" where hired just to fill the right hand seat.There you go my own personal accounts. An appropriate positive cockpit gradient is what you want at all times ... not a pissing contest because someones got a point to prove.
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eapilot2009,
No agro mate. Not from me.
Just sick of being in an industry so full of defeatists. "too old, not enough hours, you wont make it so dont try"
Its crap and just shows your own insecurity. Be positive for a change.
As for the cockpit gradient tosh, who says age impacts cockpit gradient. I have flown rhs with younger skippers and lhs with older fo's. No one ever got confused about who was boss. I have flown lhs with 60 yo fo's.
Take a look at employment in oz in the last couple of years. Heaps of old fellahs getting jobs, especially the regionals.
The old hangups in oz are becoming more of a distant memory. Eventually oz will join the developed world.
No agro mate. Not from me.
Just sick of being in an industry so full of defeatists. "too old, not enough hours, you wont make it so dont try"
Its crap and just shows your own insecurity. Be positive for a change.
As for the cockpit gradient tosh, who says age impacts cockpit gradient. I have flown rhs with younger skippers and lhs with older fo's. No one ever got confused about who was boss. I have flown lhs with 60 yo fo's.
Take a look at employment in oz in the last couple of years. Heaps of old fellahs getting jobs, especially the regionals.
The old hangups in oz are becoming more of a distant memory. Eventually oz will join the developed world.
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Live the dream
Ok much as I hate to put myself in the firing line here goes.
Got my PPL at 33 moved back to OZ in 2003 and wanted to commence CPL training. At one well known school at AF the CFI thought he was doing me a favour and told me he wouldn't advise me on training there as he thought it would be a total waste of money as I was too old.
I did my training at a more positive enviroment and gained my CPL at 34.
2 years later and having logged only 12hrs during that time took the plunge and did an instructors rating and worked there for a couple of years before getting work as a Metro Captain.
I did all this with a wife and 3 young kids and we sold our house to finance the dream.
Now 41. Have a close friend at a well known airline in Hong Kong and unofficially I am too old.
Have another close friend with a regional and their recruitment has said meet the minimums and we would interview you. Knowing them fairly well I asked them straight up and they answered just as straight "you are not too old"
Point being this. Be realistic with your goals and then work hard to achieve them.
Don't let negativity or self doubt get in the way.
20 years spent doing a trade I hated just to make ends meet. Now I do what I love and actually get paid better for it.
As someone once told me
" don't let someone else build your world for you cause they will build it too small"
Enough said
Merry Xmas to all my fellow aviators
Got my PPL at 33 moved back to OZ in 2003 and wanted to commence CPL training. At one well known school at AF the CFI thought he was doing me a favour and told me he wouldn't advise me on training there as he thought it would be a total waste of money as I was too old.
I did my training at a more positive enviroment and gained my CPL at 34.
2 years later and having logged only 12hrs during that time took the plunge and did an instructors rating and worked there for a couple of years before getting work as a Metro Captain.
I did all this with a wife and 3 young kids and we sold our house to finance the dream.
Now 41. Have a close friend at a well known airline in Hong Kong and unofficially I am too old.
Have another close friend with a regional and their recruitment has said meet the minimums and we would interview you. Knowing them fairly well I asked them straight up and they answered just as straight "you are not too old"
Point being this. Be realistic with your goals and then work hard to achieve them.
Don't let negativity or self doubt get in the way.
20 years spent doing a trade I hated just to make ends meet. Now I do what I love and actually get paid better for it.
As someone once told me
" don't let someone else build your world for you cause they will build it too small"
Enough said
Merry Xmas to all my fellow aviators
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Cheers Bo
No, I never took your "moron" comments personally; I'm not sure how you read that into any of my replies.
I was obviously being too subtle pointing out to you that people with different opinions to you aren't necessarily
The personal attacks I was referring to was this gem:
Ps Mavrick alert
Quote:
I meet the required minimas for J* (2400 TT at age 46), and think that I'd be successful if I were to apply.
I hope I get the ultimate pleasure of having to fly with your ego one day divosh.
Which was just charming. 
Peace out
DIVOSH!
No, I never took your "moron" comments personally; I'm not sure how you read that into any of my replies.
I was obviously being too subtle pointing out to you that people with different opinions to you aren't necessarily
complete morons
The personal attacks I was referring to was this gem:
Ps Mavrick alert
Quote:
I meet the required minimas for J* (2400 TT at age 46), and think that I'd be successful if I were to apply.
I hope I get the ultimate pleasure of having to fly with your ego one day divosh.
Peace out
DIVOSH!
On the subject of cockpit gradient with a young capt and older FO, I have several times braced myself for such an awkward situation, and always been pleasantly surprised that it didn't arise.
The only time I had to remind anyone who's carrying the fourth stripe was a chap close to my age keen to prove himself worthy for another shot at command course, and I'm one of the younger skippers in my position, although I choose not to look it.
The only time I had to remind anyone who's carrying the fourth stripe was a chap close to my age keen to prove himself worthy for another shot at command course, and I'm one of the younger skippers in my position, although I choose not to look it.