Cloud Seeding Cessna 310 Moorabbin 1980's
Where did Jim Borthwick end up? Last I heard he left Murchison to go to RFDS in Kalgoorlie, but by then I had moved on myself.
Bob was a strange one, but for the day when there were so few industrial protections for GA pilots, not such a bad employer. The day I did my CPL flight test he was waiting at the airport gate to offer me a job and the next day I was flying north under Jim Borthwick’s “guidance” in a C 182. I recall Jim pulled the mixture on me to test my forced landing skill. The whole cable came out of the panel, which got our attention. Fortunately the engine kept running.
Apologies for thread drift.
Bob was a strange one, but for the day when there were so few industrial protections for GA pilots, not such a bad employer. The day I did my CPL flight test he was waiting at the airport gate to offer me a job and the next day I was flying north under Jim Borthwick’s “guidance” in a C 182. I recall Jim pulled the mixture on me to test my forced landing skill. The whole cable came out of the panel, which got our attention. Fortunately the engine kept running.
Apologies for thread drift.
But I love thread drifts!
No idea where Jim and Karen B ended up, I'd like to know. He was one of those wonderful slightly odd characters that seemed to abound back then (not me of course). I recall he went crazy with a Dymo-tape machine, labelling EVERYTHING in the C.411; even the the throttles being marked "No.1" and "No.2" etc.
PM sent to you...
No idea where Jim and Karen B ended up, I'd like to know. He was one of those wonderful slightly odd characters that seemed to abound back then (not me of course). I recall he went crazy with a Dymo-tape machine, labelling EVERYTHING in the C.411; even the the throttles being marked "No.1" and "No.2" etc.
PM sent to you...
Last edited by Dora-9; 29th Apr 2021 at 20:24. Reason: addition
There was a 690 Commander(PCV?) operated out of Hobart in about 1982 on the Hydro Electric Commission rainmaking contract.
Me old mate Steve Knott had to rebuild the tailplane after the season, due to damage from hail and ice buildup.
Don Wells, Bill Shoobridge flew the 690 Commander, Lance Scott flew the Pressurised Navajo BSF.
Me old mate Steve Knott had to rebuild the tailplane after the season, due to damage from hail and ice buildup.
Don Wells, Bill Shoobridge flew the 690 Commander, Lance Scott flew the Pressurised Navajo BSF.
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CESSNA 411 build no 007 History
I now own this Cessna 411 (vh-tdb). Its been in storage for nearly 30 years but still complete. I'm considering refurbishing/overhauling this aircraft and would really like to contact anyone who has any background/knowledge of it life. So far I have found that it was the first in Australia ( build no 007) and originally used by the Cessna agent as a demo. It later seems to have been with three aerial survey companies and was retired in 1993.Suprisingly it seems to have been resprayed back to the original exterior trim colours.
If you know anything about this aircraft, its history, ownership or exploits I would appreciate hearing from you. Equally if you know anyone else who might have info, either send me their contact or pass this on to them, so they can choose whether or not they are interested in contacting me. Cheers
Charles
a
If you know anything about this aircraft, its history, ownership or exploits I would appreciate hearing from you. Equally if you know anyone else who might have info, either send me their contact or pass this on to them, so they can choose whether or not they are interested in contacting me. Cheers
Charles
a
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Hi. I have just uncovered the cesna 411 -007 known as VH-TDB. I aim to resurrect it after nearly 20 years in storage. If you have any info on the plane or know someone who has flown it, can you get in touch?
Cheers
Charles
Cheers
Charles
Using my first logbook as a memory jogger, I think Bob Oliver (Murchison Air Charter) acquired TDB in late 1966. Jim Borthwick endorsed me on it on 5th February 1967. Somewhere around that time I recall it having a camera hatch cut in to the belly at Jandakot. For high altitude photography we sucked on oxygen, and for some jobs took the top half of the cabin door off so that the cameraman could hang his gear out the side. I can't remember how we did the cloud seeding experiment, but it was unsuccessful - maybe they chucked the pellets out through the camera hatch? For some reason the contract went to another operator - maybe the C 411 was too expensive?
The only incident I had was a lucky escape. For some time there had been severe shimmy during landings, which we assumed was caused by the nosewheel. One dark night, landing on a very wet runway at Perth, the shimmy got really bad and I struggled to keep straight while slowing down. The torque link on one main landing gear had dropped (or possibly sheared) its retaining bolt and the gear on that side ended up with the mainwheel at right angles to its proper position. Of course taxying was not possible. The only thing that saved us from ripping the gear leg off was the wet runway, and the tyre did not even deflate.
Another C 411 came to Perth, operated by Bell Bros. I think that was the one which threw a prop and nearly cut the pilot's leg in half.
A very nice aeroplane for its time. To be trusted with flying single pilot in such a machine at a paltry 1300 hours in those days was quite a deal, but now of course kids with that time are flying jets..
The only incident I had was a lucky escape. For some time there had been severe shimmy during landings, which we assumed was caused by the nosewheel. One dark night, landing on a very wet runway at Perth, the shimmy got really bad and I struggled to keep straight while slowing down. The torque link on one main landing gear had dropped (or possibly sheared) its retaining bolt and the gear on that side ended up with the mainwheel at right angles to its proper position. Of course taxying was not possible. The only thing that saved us from ripping the gear leg off was the wet runway, and the tyre did not even deflate.
Another C 411 came to Perth, operated by Bell Bros. I think that was the one which threw a prop and nearly cut the pilot's leg in half.
A very nice aeroplane for its time. To be trusted with flying single pilot in such a machine at a paltry 1300 hours in those days was quite a deal, but now of course kids with that time are flying jets..
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I remember TDB very well at Jandakot. I was an apprentice engineer with Simpson Aviation there and we looked after TDB in 1969 / 70. I had my very first flight in this aircraft - hence my memory of it. The flight was to calibrate the autopilot servos I think. I remember having to do an engine change on this aircraft too. Yes, it was fitted with a floor mounted camera mounting and very expensive glass lenses arrangement for the internally mounted camera to "see" through. The engines are not for the faint hearted. Very expensive then, eye watering so now I would think. They had a lovely turbo sound on power but, at idle it was another matter. The straight cut spur gearing for the prop would make horrible mechanical clunking noises due to the gear backlash and the rougher idling engine. Once under power however the backlash was all taken up and there was no gear sound. As Mach E notes above - there was another 411 in WA too operated by Bell Bros - an earth moving contractor at the time and later to become a famous Alan Bond aquision - I think it was registered BBV.
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Many thanks
What a great surprise to get such a quick response. Its great to hear your experience with this machine. As far as I can gather it was donated to Victorian TAFE and was never really used for training, hence its still in great ( if dusty condition. The Engines are great, the interior a bit "tardy" and to me ( a very sad classic car ( SAABs) enthusiast) its a machine worth resurrecting. If you can think of anyone else who has info, experience or knowledge of this early Cessna twin, I would love to here from them. I have shipped the aircraft from Victoria to Sydney ( in container with wings/engines removed and will be working on it for a few years to come. Brought the Wings up myself on an modified car transporter trailer to ensure they weren't "mis-treated"..... never had so much attention form those who met me while filling up with fuel!!
Again many thanks for your insights
Cheers
Charles
Many many thanks for your quick response.
I was amazed to find this machine that seems to have been mothballed for 30 years. Its all there and I have now moved it to Sydney. Body engine in a container and wings separated transported personally on a modified car trailer.. Created lots of attention when I stopped foe fuel!!
If you have any more info, please let me know as I think this early "executive Twin Cessna" is worth looking after... even if it takes me many years,
Cheers, charles
.
Again many thanks for your insights
Cheers
Charles
Many many thanks for your quick response.
I was amazed to find this machine that seems to have been mothballed for 30 years. Its all there and I have now moved it to Sydney. Body engine in a container and wings separated transported personally on a modified car trailer.. Created lots of attention when I stopped foe fuel!!
If you have any more info, please let me know as I think this early "executive Twin Cessna" is worth looking after... even if it takes me many years,
Cheers, charles
.
Using my first logbook as a memory jogger, I think Bob Oliver (Murchison Air Charter) acquired TDB in late 1966. Jim Borthwick endorsed me on it on 5th February 1967. Somewhere around that time I recall it having a camera hatch cut in to the belly at Jandakot. For high altitude photography we sucked on oxygen, and for some jobs took the top half of the cabin door off so that the cameraman could hang his gear out the side. I can't remember how we did the cloud seeding experiment, but it was unsuccessful - maybe they chucked the pellets out through the camera hatch? For some reason the contract went to another operator - maybe the C 411 was too expensive?
The only incident I had was a lucky escape. For some time there had been severe shimmy during landings, which we assumed was caused by the nosewheel. One dark night, landing on a very wet runway at Perth, the shimmy got really bad and I struggled to keep straight while slowing down. The torque link on one main landing gear had dropped (or possibly sheared) its retaining bolt and the gear on that side ended up with the mainwheel at right angles to its proper position. Of course taxying was not possible. The only thing that saved us from ripping the gear leg off was the wet runway, and the tyre did not even deflate.
Another C 411 came to Perth, operated by Bell Bros. I think that was the one which threw a prop and nearly cut the pilot's leg in half.
A very nice aeroplane for its time. To be trusted with flying single pilot in such a machine at a paltry 1300 hours in those days was quite a deal, but now of course kids with that time are flying jets..
The only incident I had was a lucky escape. For some time there had been severe shimmy during landings, which we assumed was caused by the nosewheel. One dark night, landing on a very wet runway at Perth, the shimmy got really bad and I struggled to keep straight while slowing down. The torque link on one main landing gear had dropped (or possibly sheared) its retaining bolt and the gear on that side ended up with the mainwheel at right angles to its proper position. Of course taxying was not possible. The only thing that saved us from ripping the gear leg off was the wet runway, and the tyre did not even deflate.
Another C 411 came to Perth, operated by Bell Bros. I think that was the one which threw a prop and nearly cut the pilot's leg in half.
A very nice aeroplane for its time. To be trusted with flying single pilot in such a machine at a paltry 1300 hours in those days was quite a deal, but now of course kids with that time are flying jets..
Another C 411 came to Perth, operated by Bell Bros. I think that was the one which threw a prop and nearly cut the pilot's leg in half.
Last edited by Dora-9; 13th Mar 2022 at 22:09.
That was BBV, a highly utilized (and generally thrashed) aircraft. Regarding the prop separation episode and my memories of this, the propeller struck the aircraft with the disc horizontal, so it "walked" down the fuselage narrowly missing the pilot's head. He was (luckily, in this case), a quite short gent whose name now totally escapes me, but as I recall he was uninjured though perhaps rather startled. DCA then spent a great deal of time searching for the prop - it was never located.
Thanks, FP.
aroa:
Really straining the grey matter here - I THINK it was in the Lofty Range/Bulloo Downs area (north of Meekatharra).
FP:
I've been searching for any deference to this episode, and have failed abysmally to find anything!
Really straining the grey matter here - I THINK it was in the Lofty Range/Bulloo Downs area (north of Meekatharra).
FP:
I've been searching for any deference to this episode, and have failed abysmally to find anything!
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Hello The Sod!
Sorry, only saw your comment a few years late (you posted in 2017 and I've only just seen it tonight!) Baron was an E55 (EZX) and yes, the Duke was WRA. KKK was traded along with WRG for EZX in 1972. KKK still survives in some form although it has suffered a few prangs along the way. EZX (in another registration) was written off in a fuel exhaustion incident near Camden when the fuel caps were left off and all the fuel vented out of the tanks. We all know what happened to WRG two years after it was traded. Very interesting reading Fantome's account of the left tailplane damage during its cloud seeding days. Makes one wonder if it was related to the breakup in 1974 in any way?
Sorry, only saw your comment a few years late (you posted in 2017 and I've only just seen it tonight!) Baron was an E55 (EZX) and yes, the Duke was WRA. KKK was traded along with WRG for EZX in 1972. KKK still survives in some form although it has suffered a few prangs along the way. EZX (in another registration) was written off in a fuel exhaustion incident near Camden when the fuel caps were left off and all the fuel vented out of the tanks. We all know what happened to WRG two years after it was traded. Very interesting reading Fantome's account of the left tailplane damage during its cloud seeding days. Makes one wonder if it was related to the breakup in 1974 in any way?
Bill Surh of Peninsular Air Services owned VH-REL in the late sixties and early seventies at Moorabbin. 'REL' was indeed an ex cloud-seeder and he also, later,(1970?) had a contract with the CSIRO for seeding, using a Twin Bonanza, VH-CLO an ex Conellan machine. Very little use was made of it in the cloud-seeding mode. I cannot remember why. The 310B was a totally different animal to later 310s' especially the 'Q' onwards, but great fun to fly, very light in roll. I saw 'REL' in Hamilton in the early eighties while visiting the Ansett Museum. The pilots for the CSIRO contract were Bill himself and John Fleming. Sadly both were subsequently killed in aircraft accidents. 'CLO' was painted two-tone blue with the CSIRO badge on the rear fuselage and fin. After the contract ended the aircraft was painted in a yellow scheme and ended its days on the Cairns fire dump.
Sadly, not long after (not the same day) I saw a Cessna 402 (VH-RED) take off from runway 35 at Essendon on a hot afternoon and observed smoke coming from an engine and it wasn’t performing, it went down shortly afterwards and I saw the black smoke🤬. There is a freeway somewhere near the accident site now I believe.
I heard that was Bill flying the aeroplane.
I was learning to fly at the time, the memory of seeing the 402 trailing smoke and not performing will always be in my memory, together with knowing that a very experienced pilot was flying it.
I’m now quite experienced, however I still consider every flight to be my first.
