Flying Instructor Rates

[eocvictim]

I was wraped with getting $24k for a years worth of FREE flying Better than the $30k i got WORKING in a servo. Although I did find out that for the time I worked at my first job I was and still am (for another year) entitled to $15k in underpaid wages.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

don't feed the troll

[tio540]

Grade 3 instructor wages can be more easily calculated as exactly half your rent. A Grade 2 instructor gets longer flights between paying the rent. A Grade 1 instructor goes back to flying on one engine, even longer flights, and earning exactly half the rent.

[parkbrake]

To those of you who have taken the time to reply...Thank you.
However, from reading the posts I feel that some of you have interpreted this the wrong way. I am perfectly aware that the money earned is minimal. I can assure you that I am not so stupid as to start something I knew nothing about. But as I am unable at this time to move out of my current location I am unable to look at work other than instructing.

However, what I dont want is to work for 25 bucks an hour when the minimum hourly rate is say 50 bucks an hour? I simply want pointed in the right direction.

What I am also trying to attain is what YOU or your school pays its instructors. Are the majority of you instructors on salaries or paid by the hour? Do you get any perks with the particualr company YOU work for?

[tail wheel]

parkbrake.

HERE is a little light reading for you.

All will be revealed!

[tio540]

Tailwheel

I think he also wants to know what the pay really is, not just what the award says.

There can be a significant difference, like renewals, on call and minimum daily pay rates.

[eocvictim]

Parkbreak, by the sounds of it you're doing instructing as a means to an end with the intent to move onto charter when you can. Now before someone shoots this down, I did it as a means to an end but I did actually want to instruct and do love teaching. I'm not going to assume that you are anything other because I'm sure you've dealt with crappy instructors yourself.

If this is the case, then you need to factor this into your plan. You need to look beyond the hourly rate.

Some better paying, bigger schools look great but they can take more time to get on your feet and get decent hours. They will also limit your progression into charter. Smaller/cheaper schools will often see faster progression and often branch into more charter ops.

Ask the instructors at each school how long its taken them to get on their feet and the number of new students walking through the door. Also ask them a rough timeframe for progression onto charter, multi IFR training and finally greener pastures. The last thing to ask is a rough idea of their hours in the first and 2nd years.

If you're earning a great hourly rate (award) but doing stuff all hours with very slow progression you're in a far worse position than the guy raking in the hours. Remember that hours mean progression. The faster you build your hours the faster you move onto grade 2, 1 and multi IFR. Yeah, ok, its at a lesser pay rate to your peers but what about the guy you did your instructor rating with who's still a grade 3?

The final caution with my advice though; Good hours with a "dodgy" operator are always subject to high scrutiny. So ask around for what people think/say. Unfortunatly rumours are often worth more than facts in this industry.

N.B. I'm not saying do it for nothing or to offer yourself for less but if you have a choice dont just look at the hourly rate.

[inxs]

Makes you want to go and join a union.....AFAP ??? naaaahhh, don't think so, maybe we should start our own union and unionise the whole GA sector, f/instructors especially - mandatory membership guarantees a healthy income but not pay the same membership rates as AFAP naturally (even though I am usually against compulsory union membership but this is one industry that needs it badly !).
Comments welcome please....

[GADRIVR]

"Please do not come to PPRuNe and whine about being paid less than the Award or working under an employment agreement that is not in accordance with Australian industrial law. You can not contract out of your legal entitlements, your employer is acting unlawfully - and your complaints are boring! "
Geez Tailwheel.............what the hell is the site for then???!!!
Perhaps YOU need to come out of your sheltered workshop and give helpful, well intentioned and RELEVANT advice for a newbie in the REAL dog eat dog world!
Not the rubbish that your good self and CFI have written above.
Waffle.....absolute mean spirited BORING waffle!!
Back in MY day blah blah blah.....Jesus! How boring is that!
Have a nice day girls!

[YPJT]

GADRIVR,
You have been given honest, well intentioned and VERY RELEVANT advice.

Exactly what part of their posts offended you? Perhaps the bits that you yourself are guilty of perpetuating or having been sucked in by?

[aussiefan]

Sticking up for the newbie

I haven't bothered to ask the question on the forum, I have looked at the award on the AFAP site, while the rates at the end of the awards make sense the rest of it is a bit of a struggle, as awards normally are. It also seems there are a lot of people payed under and over it.
I have heard a lot of people carry on about their pay without actually saying what it is, they don't have to say, but it is of no information.
It would be good to hear I fly xxx aircraft as an xxx and earn roughly xx a year. Not as a bragging exercise but so newbies could actually see.

For the record, I have asked some people and from looking around I know what I can expect to earn and am delighted! More so for complete newbies.

[aussiefan]

Awesome, a lot more income than I expected. Good to have some actual information.

Now to try to verify it.

I am a firm believer in "I saw it on the internet, it must be true" Not to say you are wrong but this should be one source.

[bushy]

If you can't get a full time job you will be VERY short of money.
And the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is only there in about ten years, for a few.

[Fonz121]

aussiefan,

Grade 2 instructor, $54,000 if that helps.

[Stretch06]

Grade 2 Instructor NVFR = $38,800 (before tax)
Working 80-90hrs duty / fortnight and avg 550hrs flying / year.
Renewals and upgrades paid by company.

Wow, wish I was on Fonz121's salary. Fonz is that SE or ME training?

[world instrucor]

good luck

Do you live with parents? Do you eat? does parents still pay your bills? DO you date? Are you celibate? Do you own a car? Can you sleep in back of car? Can you eat at local soup kitchen missions ? Do you have a sugar momma ? then you can expect to earn enough to qualify for all government programs

[Skydiveandy]

Full Time

Retainer of just over $40K + a reasonable hourly rate..

Grade 1 Multi IFR

works out to around $50K+ depending on the hours..

Hard Work, loads of politics, wouldn't give it up though..

[M14_P]

I personally charge $40/flying hour GST inc. Only doing it part time (busy with other commitments). I have 3 PPL's on the go at the moment. Just enough to keep out of trouble - these fellas are self funding students too.
If you are after a salary then clearly this won't work for you (contract flying) but it sure does work for me.

[A37575]

Just remember you will be starting out as a junior Gr 3, which means constant supervision which can be a bit of a hassle for some companies

The so called constant supervision is a farce. There are countless stories of new instructors hanging on to students for many hours with no check flights conducted by the CFI to ensure the student's progress is being closely monitored. How many times do flying school chief flying instructors actually fly with their junior instructors to check their instructional skills? Who pays for the aircraft time? Too much hassle? Too right.

My understanding of the reason for the formation of the CASA Flight Standards Testing group was that the standards of new instructors was so poor that CASA intervention was warranted. So much for the constant supervision of grade 3 instructors by their own CFI's

[Dangnammit]

As long as you can pay your bills and lend you knowledge to others while filling up the log book. That's my short term goal when I finish my fir.

Pay wise, if it's not enough, then other work as well will have to do.

Will be hard after coming from civil works with good money.

Sacrifice now for the future.....