Increased hiring minumums and pilot check ride database for US Airlines to come.
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Increased hiring minumums and pilot check ride database for US Airlines to come.
Will the increased minimums increase the wages and or conditions for our US colleagues?
Stuffing up a sim will have a whole new meaning after this bill is passed.
ATW Daily News
US House passes pilot hiring/training bill
Friday October 16, 2009
The US House of Representatives this week overwhelmingly passed legislation to revamp regulations for hiring and training pilots, the result of Congressional concern sparked by the February crash of a Colgan Air Q400 that killed 50 people near Buffalo.
The Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009, sponsored by aviation subcommittee Chairman Jerry Costello (D-Ill.), cleared the House by a 409-11 vote. "At the heart of [the bill] is the need to ensure that our commercial pilots are well-trained and have the necessary experience to handle all situations they may encounter," Costello said (ATWOnline, Sept. 28). The Senate is considering similar legislation. It is unclear how long it may take for the full Congress to pass a bill to send to President Barack Obama for signature into law.
The House-passed legislation requires all airline pilots to hold an FAA Air Transport Pilot license, which would raise minimum flying hr. for a first-hire pilot from 250 to 1,500. The bill additionally "establishes comprehensive pre-employment screening of prospective pilots" and requires carriers to establish pilot mentoring programs and modify training "to accommodate new-hire pilots with different levels and types of flight experience and provide leadership and command training to pilots in command."
It further calls for creation of a "Pilot Records Database" administered by FAA to provide airlines "with fast, electronic access to a pilot's comprehensive record. Information will include a pilot's licenses, aircraft ratings, check rides, notices of disapproval and other flight proficiency tests."
If the bill becomes law, mainline carriers would be forced to disclose on the front page of their websites which airline is operating each segment of a flight for which they are selling tickets.
US Air Transport Assn. said the legislation may need "further refinements" and that "many issues" it addresses already are being tackled by airlines and FAA. Air Line Pilots Assn. President John Prater said, "our industry will be safer" if the House-passed bill becomes law.
by Aaron Karp
Stuffing up a sim will have a whole new meaning after this bill is passed.
ATW Daily News
US House passes pilot hiring/training bill
Friday October 16, 2009
The US House of Representatives this week overwhelmingly passed legislation to revamp regulations for hiring and training pilots, the result of Congressional concern sparked by the February crash of a Colgan Air Q400 that killed 50 people near Buffalo.
The Airline Safety and Pilot Training Improvement Act of 2009, sponsored by aviation subcommittee Chairman Jerry Costello (D-Ill.), cleared the House by a 409-11 vote. "At the heart of [the bill] is the need to ensure that our commercial pilots are well-trained and have the necessary experience to handle all situations they may encounter," Costello said (ATWOnline, Sept. 28). The Senate is considering similar legislation. It is unclear how long it may take for the full Congress to pass a bill to send to President Barack Obama for signature into law.
The House-passed legislation requires all airline pilots to hold an FAA Air Transport Pilot license, which would raise minimum flying hr. for a first-hire pilot from 250 to 1,500. The bill additionally "establishes comprehensive pre-employment screening of prospective pilots" and requires carriers to establish pilot mentoring programs and modify training "to accommodate new-hire pilots with different levels and types of flight experience and provide leadership and command training to pilots in command."
It further calls for creation of a "Pilot Records Database" administered by FAA to provide airlines "with fast, electronic access to a pilot's comprehensive record. Information will include a pilot's licenses, aircraft ratings, check rides, notices of disapproval and other flight proficiency tests."
If the bill becomes law, mainline carriers would be forced to disclose on the front page of their websites which airline is operating each segment of a flight for which they are selling tickets.
US Air Transport Assn. said the legislation may need "further refinements" and that "many issues" it addresses already are being tackled by airlines and FAA. Air Line Pilots Assn. President John Prater said, "our industry will be safer" if the House-passed bill becomes law.
by Aaron Karp
Thats good to see.
A knee jerk reaction by the pollies.
What about enforcing some minimum wage structures and enforcing flight and duty times? That might actually achieve some good for all involved.
As an aside is there a register kept for the performance of doctors, surgeons, pharmacists etc? Something that the public might be able to access so that they can assess which health professional they choose to visit.
Oh that's right, the medical profession might kill more people per year than are killed in airline crashes but they do it one by one and the general public never gets to hear about it, therefore there's nothing in it for the pollies.
What about enforcing some minimum wage structures and enforcing flight and duty times? That might actually achieve some good for all involved.
As an aside is there a register kept for the performance of doctors, surgeons, pharmacists etc? Something that the public might be able to access so that they can assess which health professional they choose to visit.
Oh that's right, the medical profession might kill more people per year than are killed in airline crashes but they do it one by one and the general public never gets to hear about it, therefore there's nothing in it for the pollies.
Meanwhile in Australia CASA have lowered the minimum requirements for an ATPL
They lowered the command required to 250 hours because apparently 500 was to hard to get or something....
There was supposed to be a flight test implemented like the USA however I don't believe that has eventuated yet.
There was supposed to be a flight test implemented like the USA however I don't believe that has eventuated yet.
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Wont change a thing..The regionals in Aus use to have high requirements but they still paid peanuts.As long as people are sending in applications wages will go nowhere,when planes are parked due lack of crew because of the conditions companies will then have to pay more.. Saying that it wont happen so conditions will continue to head south!!
On another thread (can't quite recall which one) Hugh, I think it was, made reference to the F/O in the Colgan crash. Words to the effect..."She was living in her parents basement with her husband and commuting across country".
We've all seen the video, and there are the usual opinions, but that one situation drove it home for me. I'm betting that it also drove it home for a lot of Americans, not least of all the relatives of the deceased. I can just hear them all collectively saying W.T.F!!!
Was her relative inexperience and shocking remuneration a factor? Who knows. Would an experienced !500 hour plus ATPL holder sitting in the right seat avoided the accident? Who knows. One thing's for sure though, when the **** hit's the fan, that's when pilots really earn their money. Problem is, for some the money hardly equates to what a checkout chick makes at Wallmart!
So I guess the question is, how do we ensure that only experienced professionals inhabit the cockpit of airliners? That, I would suggest, is what's occupying the minds of American legislators.
And not before time!
We've all seen the video, and there are the usual opinions, but that one situation drove it home for me. I'm betting that it also drove it home for a lot of Americans, not least of all the relatives of the deceased. I can just hear them all collectively saying W.T.F!!!
Was her relative inexperience and shocking remuneration a factor? Who knows. Would an experienced !500 hour plus ATPL holder sitting in the right seat avoided the accident? Who knows. One thing's for sure though, when the **** hit's the fan, that's when pilots really earn their money. Problem is, for some the money hardly equates to what a checkout chick makes at Wallmart!
So I guess the question is, how do we ensure that only experienced professionals inhabit the cockpit of airliners? That, I would suggest, is what's occupying the minds of American legislators.
And not before time!
So I guess the question is, how do we ensure that only experienced professionals inhabit the cockpit of airliners?
Regional airline flying can offer a better lifestyle than the majors and suits some people who may wish to live in a regional area and/or be home every night. A 45 year old may not want to go back into the right seat and wait years for an upgrade while having to learn an new type and a new operation.
SAAB 340/DHC8 captain with a good package and coming home at lunch time would appeal more to a lot of older pilots than 10-14 over nights per month and back of the clock operations.
There will always be turnover in the regionals which is a good thing because it provides opportunities for others wishing to move up the ladder. Looking after the experienced pilots who want to stick around is in everyones interests.
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Fatigue and pitiful conditions
Why have the lawmakers yet again ignored fatigue
/tiredness ect?
The solution they've come up with is more scrutiny and higher minimums. WTF!?
As Krusty points out, the pilots involved were living a pitiful existance in order to pay their bills in the hope of moving to a better job and just hoping that the lack of sleep russian roulette wouldn't last too long. Surely this existance this had a role to play in the accident as well as the training/checking and inexperience issues? From the article I can't see a mention of fatigue or working conditions can you?
But you know what? As long as the right airline is written on the ticket we'll all be okay right?
/tiredness ect?The solution they've come up with is more scrutiny and higher minimums. WTF!?
As Krusty points out, the pilots involved were living a pitiful existance in order to pay their bills in the hope of moving to a better job and just hoping that the lack of sleep russian roulette wouldn't last too long. Surely this existance this had a role to play in the accident as well as the training/checking and inexperience issues? From the article I can't see a mention of fatigue or working conditions can you?
But you know what? As long as the right airline is written on the ticket we'll all be okay right?
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But some of us know that the greedy CEO's only pay lip service to experience.. As long as shoddy inefficient operations planning can be covered up/ignored, they would rather pocket the cash themselves, and have newer captains that don't comment on irregularities, than have an more experienced one who might just recognise, and dislike a con, when it is seen.. Until something happens on their watch, of course, then the hunt is on to get rid of any one who questioned them, and the "experienced" word (reference themselves), gets quite an airing then...
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Yeah Frigate I recall and GA operator asking me when I was going to make the "next step" (code language for piss off so i can pull the wool on the new guys).
Funnily enough I was he last of the experienced guys that knew the ropes and knew what could and couldn't be done all too well.
The way I see it professional experienced crews can save a lot of money for operators when push comes to shove.
Funnily enough I was he last of the experienced guys that knew the ropes and knew what could and couldn't be done all too well.
The way I see it professional experienced crews can save a lot of money for operators when push comes to shove.
Guys,
Conditions and wages in the US regionals are basically min wage when total duty hours per mo are considered as opposed to rostered flying times which is how they quote hourly rates.
Most junior pilots are forced by seniority to be based in the most expensive cities in the airlines bases list.
FAR 121 Flt & Duty times are far worse than basic CAO 48 times here in Aust.
Most operators here in Aust have standard CASA dispensations that greatly exceed basic CAO48 requirements do they not????
FAR 121 allows a 16hr duty day for airline ops, with basic rest.
FAR 135 used by charter ops has a 14 hr duty limit.
That is time you walk thru crew room door til when u leave at destination. Makes no allowances for travel to from home/hotel, shuttle trips to/from parking etc.ie actually getting to crew room after arriving somewhere on the airport.
So on a min rest period of 8-9 hrs, how much actual sleep is a pilot going to get????
You can all do the math. Substantially less than 7-8hrs.
Despite all that we know about fatigue and its effects on human performance these regs havent changed in decades, just as they havent here in Aust.
Fatigue is as bad if not worse than being over .08-.15 BAC and they test for and crack down on anyone drinking and flying/ driving.
Nothing is going to change though. Too much money to be lost by airlines and charter operators if they ever did. Profits ultimately are far more important than human lives.
That is a simple fact.
If it wasn't, airlines esp would have pushed for changes to these Flt and Duty regs decades ago to prevent pilots being asked to work 14-16hr shifts .
Conditions and wages in the US regionals are basically min wage when total duty hours per mo are considered as opposed to rostered flying times which is how they quote hourly rates.
Most junior pilots are forced by seniority to be based in the most expensive cities in the airlines bases list.
FAR 121 Flt & Duty times are far worse than basic CAO 48 times here in Aust.
Most operators here in Aust have standard CASA dispensations that greatly exceed basic CAO48 requirements do they not????
FAR 121 allows a 16hr duty day for airline ops, with basic rest.
FAR 135 used by charter ops has a 14 hr duty limit.
That is time you walk thru crew room door til when u leave at destination. Makes no allowances for travel to from home/hotel, shuttle trips to/from parking etc.ie actually getting to crew room after arriving somewhere on the airport.
So on a min rest period of 8-9 hrs, how much actual sleep is a pilot going to get????
You can all do the math. Substantially less than 7-8hrs.
Despite all that we know about fatigue and its effects on human performance these regs havent changed in decades, just as they havent here in Aust.
Fatigue is as bad if not worse than being over .08-.15 BAC and they test for and crack down on anyone drinking and flying/ driving.
Nothing is going to change though. Too much money to be lost by airlines and charter operators if they ever did. Profits ultimately are far more important than human lives.
That is a simple fact.
If it wasn't, airlines esp would have pushed for changes to these Flt and Duty regs decades ago to prevent pilots being asked to work 14-16hr shifts .
I agree with 27/09; this is just another US knee-jerk reaction, and does not address any of the underlying problems. A bit like their ill-conceived "security" programs.
I hate to say it, but experienced pilots can also suffer from fatigue, and whilst an experienced pilot may have more skills to draw on, there is still no guarantee that he/she will avoid an accident.
What about addressing the reduction in infrastructure, reductions in training, scheduling pressures, aging fleets, or many other problems that combine to eat away at the margins of safety?
Yes I'm all for paying pilots (and engineers) more (pick me!), but a salary increase does not automatically improve safety margins. It might reduce some stress factors, but the other problems remain.
I hate to say it, but experienced pilots can also suffer from fatigue, and whilst an experienced pilot may have more skills to draw on, there is still no guarantee that he/she will avoid an accident.
What about addressing the reduction in infrastructure, reductions in training, scheduling pressures, aging fleets, or many other problems that combine to eat away at the margins of safety?
Yes I'm all for paying pilots (and engineers) more (pick me!), but a salary increase does not automatically improve safety margins. It might reduce some stress factors, but the other problems remain.
The only good thing I can see to come from this if it were to happen here (which it won't) is that when we have a repeat scenario of 18 months ago where the regionals are bleeding pilots, they won't be able to just drop all the mins. in order to attract lesser qualified candidates.
This would give the current pilot body more power when it came to eba negotiations. But knowing us, we'd probably f**k that up.
This would give the current pilot body more power when it came to eba negotiations. But knowing us, we'd probably f**k that up.
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Easy, pay them properly. Offer a good benefits package, decent working conditions ...
Why have the lawmakers yet again ignored fatigue
/tiredness ect?
/tiredness ect?
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What about making them do renewals... just did my FAA ATP(includes MECIR) and was suprised i dont need any renewals if i stay current, also with the standard of pilot that the schools are producing according to the c of a that did my test, Australians dont have much to worry about just yet.
Destructors do a 14 day course before they are let loose by themselves to sign off on almost everything
even multi engine.
Destructors do a 14 day course before they are let loose by themselves to sign off on almost everything
even multi engine.