Two questions on alcohol
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From: The aussie part of pprune
Two questions on alcohol
1) For pilots the limit is 0.02, does the eight hour bottle to throttle rule still apply?.. Now that there is a BAC limit...
2) What are airline company policies such as QF for flight crew, I guess something like none 24 hours prior to signing on?
2) What are airline company policies such as QF for flight crew, I guess something like none 24 hours prior to signing on?
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From: inside of a pretty bustard
as I know, 24 hrs policy related to alcohol is for airlines such JAL, Singapore ,Cathay,Malayesian, ANA,Korean, etc, for european and united states is 8 hrs policy.....what I do not know is for russian, maybe to be reduced at 3-4 hrs
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From: EU
The alcohol limit depends on which country you're in... 2 UK pilots where not allowed to board their plane when they were on the "UK" limit of 0,02 in Helsinki where the limit is 0...
if you're flying from a country that has limits which are more strict, those limits apply...
Thomas Cook uses 9 hours...
if you're flying from a country that has limits which are more strict, those limits apply...
Thomas Cook uses 9 hours...
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From: Sydney, Australia
Am I right in thinking the reason for the 0.02 is that the testing recently brought in can't do any better or something like that? Admitedly I remember reading it here so it's likely I have been led up the garden path !
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From: North Queensland, Australia
It makes for an interesting legal concept if they put such a limit on it - surely someone could argue that it doesn't matter how the 0.02 comes about, left over from the previous night or a quick coldie during the walkaround!
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From: Somewhere
Arm,
unless you did the walkaround 8hrs before you flew it and had the coldie then (despite the fact that you'd probably be zero by then anyway), CAR 256 (3) would still apply:
in short "no grog 8 hours before departure" would still apply.
mcgrath, i think when the AOD info packs came out, it had something stating that a reading below 0.02 is taken to be sober for some reason, maybe due accuracy or the potential of false zeros.
however i cannot find anything yet that had the explanation on it.
unless you did the walkaround 8hrs before you flew it and had the coldie then (despite the fact that you'd probably be zero by then anyway), CAR 256 (3) would still apply:
in short "no grog 8 hours before departure" would still apply.
mcgrath, i think when the AOD info packs came out, it had something stating that a reading below 0.02 is taken to be sober for some reason, maybe due accuracy or the potential of false zeros.
however i cannot find anything yet that had the explanation on it.
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From: Australia
The whole '8 hour' concept is a legal minefield. How do you prove that the drink in the photo is alcoholic? How do you prove that you actually ingested from the glass in your hand?
You can prove your BAC is over a threshold.
Notwithstanding the fact that if you accidentally had a sip of something within the 8 hours (picked up someone else's glass for example), you're unfit to operate. Silly.
You can prove your BAC is over a threshold.
Notwithstanding the fact that if you accidentally had a sip of something within the 8 hours (picked up someone else's glass for example), you're unfit to operate. Silly.
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From: Sydney, Australia
Interestingly I read this just today on the issue of charging pilots for alcohol consumption Cockpit Chronicles: "Flying Drunk" by Joe Balzer | Gadling.com
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From: Sydney Australia
Quote:
For pilots the limit is 0.02
With some trepidation ... where did you get this number from ?
For pilots the limit is 0.02
With some trepidation ... where did you get this number from ?
(b) for alcohol — a level of alcohol of less than 0.02 grams of alcohol in 210 litres of breath.
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From: Darwin
I think CASA cockheads have realized that GA operators are tight asses and they testing equipment they buy will be !!!!! 0.02 otherwise alot of pilots will fail testing due listerine, cinnamon or chewing gum. Or being hungover?
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From: Permanently lost
The limit of 0.02 is to allow for the inherent inaccuracy in the testing equipment. For those who have been random breath tested the equipment used there has a higher inaccuracy factor which is why it is only used as a screener, to sort out those that need to be tested versus those that don't. The real reading for court purposes is the thing used either back at the station or in the random booze bus.
In effect a 0.02 reading means zero blood/alcohol. If you are in excess it doesn't matter how it got there, whether it is the residue from the previous night or whatever is immaterial. Incidentally, a quick one on the walk-around will register far more than 0.02 due to the residual alcohol in the mouth. That is why when you are breath tested (at least for motor vehicle offences - I haven't look at the regs for pilots) they have to wait at least 15 minutes before taking the breath sample.
You have no idea of the number of people convicted of being in excess of 0.05 the morning after a heavy night on the turps because there just hasn't been sufficient time to metabolise the alcohol out of their system. The last I heard of that was to allow for a metabolisation rate of 0.01 per hour but that figure is now over 10 years old. Use it at your peril.
If you want some other rules of thumb from that era then work on 0.028 per stubbie or can of full strength beer. It will take approximately 45 minutes for the full effect of the alcohol to take effect but your body will immediately start to metabolise the alcohol (which is after all, a poison) out of the body. Wine takes about 30 minutes to be absorbed and spirits about 15 minutes.
Metabolism rates vary hugely. The figure of 0.01 was the lowest recorded rate of metabolism up to about 10 years ago. I don't know whether it has changed or not since then. All of the stuff that people says will lower their blood/alcohol limit is a crock of ****. It is the metabolism rate that changes.
For the females who may read this be aware that for the same amount of alcohol consumed you will read higher than your male counterparts. You have more fat cells in your body makeup and alcohol is attracted to fat.
Finally, if anyone relies on the above to try and get a skin full and then to be under the limit to go flying they are a bleedin' idiot and deserve everything that may come their way.
In effect a 0.02 reading means zero blood/alcohol. If you are in excess it doesn't matter how it got there, whether it is the residue from the previous night or whatever is immaterial. Incidentally, a quick one on the walk-around will register far more than 0.02 due to the residual alcohol in the mouth. That is why when you are breath tested (at least for motor vehicle offences - I haven't look at the regs for pilots) they have to wait at least 15 minutes before taking the breath sample.
You have no idea of the number of people convicted of being in excess of 0.05 the morning after a heavy night on the turps because there just hasn't been sufficient time to metabolise the alcohol out of their system. The last I heard of that was to allow for a metabolisation rate of 0.01 per hour but that figure is now over 10 years old. Use it at your peril.
If you want some other rules of thumb from that era then work on 0.028 per stubbie or can of full strength beer. It will take approximately 45 minutes for the full effect of the alcohol to take effect but your body will immediately start to metabolise the alcohol (which is after all, a poison) out of the body. Wine takes about 30 minutes to be absorbed and spirits about 15 minutes.
Metabolism rates vary hugely. The figure of 0.01 was the lowest recorded rate of metabolism up to about 10 years ago. I don't know whether it has changed or not since then. All of the stuff that people says will lower their blood/alcohol limit is a crock of ****. It is the metabolism rate that changes.
For the females who may read this be aware that for the same amount of alcohol consumed you will read higher than your male counterparts. You have more fat cells in your body makeup and alcohol is attracted to fat.
Finally, if anyone relies on the above to try and get a skin full and then to be under the limit to go flying they are a bleedin' idiot and deserve everything that may come their way.
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From: SoCal
AFAIK, most countries have a limit of somewhere around 0.02 because anything below that can come for any variety of sources (food, medication) that has nothing to do with alcohol consumption. Then there is also the accuracy of the testing equipment. How countries that have a 0,0 limit deal with this, I don't know.
