Spotters to Spot Trouble?

[Critical Reynolds No]

Have heard that the AFP will be trialing a scheme where spotters (the spotty types that hang around the fences wanting to get in) will be issued ASIC type clearances and cards to report any suspicious activity. Applicants will have criminal background checks (ala ASIC) and then given a special number to call in the feds. In "reward", they are given access to airside of special viewing areas. I'm not sure if the reward is for being a member or for gaining a conviction.

I wonder if that would include psychological tests?

Sounds like a good idea but I have the feeling it could be misused and the appeal to spotters having asic clearance and a uniform/vest sounds like attracting flies to a dog poop.

Apologies if posted before. Just now been able to pull myself away from MadCow in TSV.

PS. This is not a dig at spotters.

[Aerohooligan]

Sounds bizarre and ridiculous to me. Isn't that why CASA ramp-checks us periodically??? How is a spotter on the boundary fence with a pair of binocs and a pad and pencil supposed to reliably report incidents they believe are 'illegal'?

For example, they would need to have a thorough knowledge of things like dangerous goods (including which operators have approval to carry them and which don't), aircraft limitations (ie how many seats can you remove from a C206, what's the baggage area limit on a PA31), passenger number limitations (7 ppl may be carried in a six seat aeroplane under certain circumstances etc)...I could go on.

Who will provide that training???

Bad idea, top to bottom. It will create unnecessary paperwork and more red tape to further strangle the already wheezing system.

[YPJT]

Have heard that the AFP will be trialing a scheme where spotters (the spotty types that hang around the fences wanting to get in) will be issued ASIC type clearances and cards to report any suspicious activity.

Care to share your source? It is after all airport management who decides who and who does not have access to airside areas.

[Monopole]

Aerohooligan

report any suspicious activity

Not nonregulatory activity. In otherwords if they see a couple of shady looking fellows in a conspicuous area. Nothing more then everyone else in this country has been asked to do, except the spotters get to go airside for a reward. They, nor the AFP would'nt care less how many seats are in a 207.

I say bring it on. The fence people probably know better then anybody else what is unusual activity in their favourite stomping ground

[ZappBrannigan]

Sounds bizarre and ridiculous to me. Isn't that why CASA ramp-checks us periodically??? How is a spotter on the boundary fence with a pair of binocs and a pad and pencil supposed to reliably report incidents they believe are 'illegal'?

I think we're talking suspicious security-related activity here - not ramp-check type illegalities. Ironically, spotters are already doing the exact type of thing Mr Howard's "alert but not alarmed" campaign told us to look out for - sitting on the fence of a restricted area taking photos.

It's still absolutely nuts. Any reportable suspicious activity is going to be on the outside of the fence - so why would they need to be airside to observe and report? If the suspicious activity is airside, by a person with authority to be in that place - all the ASIC-wielding spotter can legally do is ring up the hotline. Can't think what that activity could POSSIBLY be, apart from a person not displaying an ASIC, or wearing appropriate clothing - but if they're doing this near the runway environment and have hostile intentions, they've already dodged every layer of airport security. The whole concept is ridiculous, and I don't agree that it even sounds like a good idea - if there's any truth to it at all.

[ZappBrannigan]

In otherwords if they see a couple of shady looking fellows in a conspicuous area.

Airside or landside? The above description fits many spotters themselves - what exactly are the AFP supposed to do when they receive this call? "I've seen two guys taking photos near the fence - they look dodgy". No offence detected, no reasonable belief that any offence will be committed, no reason to search or arrest, unless they're taking photos of things like refuelling equipment and security gates etc. - but that's why everybody with an ASIC has a responsibility to observe and report this stuff - and we have routine patrols to look out for it.

If they're airside - well, if they have no ASIC they'll be arrested anyway (I'm talking major airports, not some small GA apron), and if they do - you've described 70% of baggage handlers and ground staff I know.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Foamers foaming at the mouth here:

Plane Spotters at Sydney - Join In! - Sydney Airport Message Board

[VH-XXX]

No way. Don't get me started on this. I'm already a victim of a spotter-muppet abusing his perceived "power" by informing CASA that my aircraft had been written-off when quite clearly it hadn't (he stuffed up). I then received a "show cause" from CASA as to why my registration shouldn't be cancelled.

It's plain dumb if you ask me.

[Monopole]

ZappBrannigan,

Unless I am missing the point, I dont think the spotters are going to be airside. Heck, I have an ASIC and one that allows me access through the doors at a Capital City airport and I cant just be airside for the sake of it or to take photos.
The card (just my understanding) is NOT an ASIC. It was only discribed and rather poorly as an ASIC type (style) card. It will not permit them airside but rather identify them as a member of a group of spotters that have the privilage to be rewarded by going airside SUPERVISED.
It is still IMO a good idea, provided they remain landside and do not go chest thumping thinking they are airport police.

[AussieNick]

in theory it sounds like a good idea. But it is enevitable that people will abuse the privilage.

[ZappBrannigan]

Unless I am missing the point, I dont think the spotters are going to be airside. Heck, I have an ASIC and one that allows me access through the doors at a Capital City airport and I cant just be airside for the sake of it or to take photos.
The card (just my understanding) is NOT an ASIC. It was only discribed and rather poorly as an ASIC type (style) card. It will not permit them airside but rather identify them as a member of a group of spotters that have the privilage to be rewarded by going airside SUPERVISED.
It is still IMO a good idea, provided they remain landside and do not go chest thumping thinking they are airport police.

If this is the case, then they have achieved nothing that couldn't be achieved by displaying some signage at the viewing areas with "call 131 AFP to report any suspicious activity". Giving spotters some perceived power will only lead to increased numbers of bogus reports and wasted police time - especially if there's the carrot of airside visits and other stuff dangling in front of them.

I just can't imagine a single reportable event happening near the viewing areas, apart from photography and note-taking (which the spotters themselves are doing anyway) - what do they expect, someone measuring out a site for a surface-to-air missle or something? If it's something as blatant as someone trying to jump the fence - well, that's something the public has a duty to immediately report anyway, forget the badge and the background check. At other areas where they may be credible suspicious activity (such as near airside access points, gates, refuelling areas etc.) - spotters have no business being near there conducting any kind of psuedo-surveillance operation - leave it to the professionals.

I'm not saying we shouldn't encourage the reporting of suspicious activity - just that creating a little detective club will not enhance this at all.

[b_sta]

If actual pilots with actual pilot licences and ASICs aren't allowed airside at major airports without specific permission, then bloody spotters certainly shouldn't be.

[tail wheel]

How bizarre – a civilian volunteer security service, remunerated with air-side junkets?

I don't think someone has really thought this one through, in particular the potential liabilities.

[Dunnza]

No liabilities Tail - one can witness suspicious activity and report it and its up to the authority to investigate.

These guys dont have to be airside to see stuff that would raise eyebrows

[haughtney1]

I'll probably getting flamed/hung drawn and quatered for this but....

I think its a good idea, despite what a lot of people think..most spotters are just normal people with a genuine (if slightly more obsessive) interest in aviation, it merely goes a bit beyond what most of us consider a fun day out at an airshow etc.
Personally, I'm perfectly happy to think that there is a group of enthusiasts who love and enjoy aviation as much as I do being there on the lookout for suspicious activity..and no not airside..I mean vehicles parked in unusual places, people doing odd stuff near fence lines etc etc.
Yes spotters are considered a bit odd by some, to me they are potentially a valuable tool that can (if managed properly..i.e using common sense) enhance aviation security for all of us.

[YPJT]

Great! fertile imaginations coupled with little or no expertise in aviation or associated security but just enough knowledge to become a damn nuisance.

The thought of spotty faced muppets stalking airport boundaries in cam and equipped with DSE two-ways, binos and a Mountain Designs survival kit sends shivers down my spine.

This isn't something left over from April 01 is it?

[Dunnza]

New Avatar I see TailWheel

[Torquatus]

Can't they just do what they've always done at non-airfield/airport locations, and call the police or the National Security Hotline (as appropriate) whenever they see something suspicious (or me forgetting my hi-vis vest)?

[tail wheel]

Obviously a few failed to read the thread in full?

"In return, if plane spotters observe suspicious activity around the airport, they would ring 131 AFP to report the matter, or 000 if the matter required immediate police response.

In return, as a reward, members may be offered free airside bus tours, simulator flights or airside access to get up close to those planes you want to photograph. Anything is possible, I'm not ruling anything in or out at the moment."

My bolding of the "remuneration" part.............

And here is the snitch:

Those interested would submit a form (possibly electronically) and be subjected to criminal history checks. Assuming everything is OK, they would be issued some form of ID card which identified them as an Airport Watch member. It is anticipated there would be some sort of fee involved, though it yet to be determined what that might be.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Haughts. Spotters are not normal. A "small" percentage maybe and that's coming from personal experience. I met one snapping away at the C-17s at the TVS terminal and tried to ask some questions, gear, name etc trying to be nice. The sweaty gentleman (mind you I think he just got off a flight from Syd or Mel) totally ignored myself and friend and walked away.

Maybe we'll see some on Beauty and the Geek on ch 7! Their social skills are below par. Giving them a carrot beggars belief!