Going Backwards with Less Safety at Avalon
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
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How much larger the procedural separation vs radar?
Radar: 5 miles or 3 miles in the terminal area
Procedural: 1 mile
Two aircraft converging at the same level on tracks 20 degrees apart:
Radar: need 5 miles but unless there is time for constant monitoring might run at 10 miles. Using 1-in-60, 10 miles across is 20 degrees at 30 NM from the fix.
Procedural: converging at 20 degrees - it's already published for convenience - 11 DME using VOR or 13 DME using NDB. Using 1-in-60, 20 degrees at 11 miles from the fix is about 4 miles across so you're closer than you would be by radar.
I don't know about Avalon specifically but in general, laterally, procedural separation is less restrictive than radar.
Procedural: 1 mile
Two aircraft converging at the same level on tracks 20 degrees apart:
Radar: need 5 miles but unless there is time for constant monitoring might run at 10 miles. Using 1-in-60, 10 miles across is 20 degrees at 30 NM from the fix.
Procedural: converging at 20 degrees - it's already published for convenience - 11 DME using VOR or 13 DME using NDB. Using 1-in-60, 20 degrees at 11 miles from the fix is about 4 miles across so you're closer than you would be by radar.
I don't know about Avalon specifically but in general, laterally, procedural separation is less restrictive than radar.
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: America/Australia
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FL400
Thanks for the info, I thought the procedural separation would have been more restrictive.
OZBUSDRIVER- Yes I do have a pilots license and have driven a few buses as well. The "known traffic" reference has to do VCA's which I read about from time to time. Any chance of a light aircraft wandering into the venerable Class C airspace Avalon at the outer ring Mel, am I separated from them in the procedural Class C airspace?
Thanks for the info, I thought the procedural separation would have been more restrictive.
OZBUSDRIVER- Yes I do have a pilots license and have driven a few buses as well. The "known traffic" reference has to do VCA's which I read about from time to time. Any chance of a light aircraft wandering into the venerable Class C airspace Avalon at the outer ring Mel, am I separated from them in the procedural Class C airspace?
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Dick, I take your point on the following:
Can we please wind up a reputable senator; one who really knows something about aviation. As I said before, Senator H really seemed to know what he was talking about in senate estimates. I've rarely seen a politician with such an intrinsic grasp of the intricacies of airspace. That guy is a total stunner.
If we could just enlist that other star, your local member Bronwyn in the lower house, then I am sure we would be on a winner.
Keep attempting to justify the un-justifiable if you want to. Wait for lives to be lost and then make the changes as normally happens.
If we could just enlist that other star, your local member Bronwyn in the lower house, then I am sure we would be on a winner.
venerable Class C airspace Avalon
If it was E over D then you could be mixing it with various no radio no transponder sports aircraft types who have exemptions from carrying same, and can (and do) operate in E up to A100 and higher ..........
At least C precludes such ops and all require an ATC clearance
