The Old Restricted PPL
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The Old Restricted PPL
Anyone here remember what were the required minimum hours for the RPPL way back when? Only ask as I have returned to flying after many, many years and of course don't have my original logbook.
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RPPL 33 hrs min
Unrestricted further 22 hrs, Nav I 2 hrs dual, Nav II 3 hrs dual, Nav III 5 hrs dual,
Nav IV 2 hrs solo (reverse route of Nav I), Nav V 5 dual, Nav VI 3 hrs solo, Nav VII (Test) 2 hrs. Requirement for some IF and CTA and Primary Control Zones and Landings as well in the above exercises.
I think, still trying to find that logbook, all done at Sunland when Gordon Jenkinsen and his wife ran the show in YBAF, top mob back then. In between Gordon "moonlighting" on Utah's LR35
Does anybody know what happened to BE23 WHP
Unrestricted further 22 hrs, Nav I 2 hrs dual, Nav II 3 hrs dual, Nav III 5 hrs dual,
Nav IV 2 hrs solo (reverse route of Nav I), Nav V 5 dual, Nav VI 3 hrs solo, Nav VII (Test) 2 hrs. Requirement for some IF and CTA and Primary Control Zones and Landings as well in the above exercises.
I think, still trying to find that logbook, all done at Sunland when Gordon Jenkinsen and his wife ran the show in YBAF, top mob back then. In between Gordon "moonlighting" on Utah's LR35
Does anybody know what happened to BE23 WHP
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Would have to find my first logbook to check.
Did the initial licences mid-60s and recall suggests 30 hours for the restricted and another 20 hours for the unrestricted at that time.
Subsequently, it all went overly complicated ..
Did the initial licences mid-60s and recall suggests 30 hours for the restricted and another 20 hours for the unrestricted at that time.
Subsequently, it all went overly complicated ..
"M" I think yr correct there, 55 hrs TT (33RPPL &22hrs Nav, UPPL) Obviously the mins there. Most of the guys where going solo at around 5+ hrs say up to 8 hrs or so, scary stuff:-) No headsets, flt pln req'ed just to go out to BCS. At EN with a RPPL licence you could go out to BCS & it's large associated training area which meant that yo got to see the ML city area all of the western transit lane & the training area with Baccus Marsh, all solo with no nav experience:-). We racked up hrs en-route just to practice cts. Bumbling along out of EN rwy 35, 40+deg's temp in summer all in an early C150, never even reached 1500ft by West Gate Bridge!:-). Leanrt much in those days
Those where the days when you had to have 1500 TT min & 500TT twin just to fly a Baron/Pa31!!:-)
Wmk2
Those where the days when you had to have 1500 TT min & 500TT twin just to fly a Baron/Pa31!!:-)Wmk2
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Wally, surely you jest 500 hours multi to fly a PA31, back then, you would have needed 500 hours washing one, and 1000 hours in a Seneca or PN68 before you could even get in side to clean it.
John Tilley at Tillair/ Chartair was a maverick in his day, he would let guys into a C441 around 3000 hrs total and 2000 multi if they came up thru his ranks !! And almost without exception they all turned into damned fine pilots and are continuing their airline careers around the world.
John Tilley at Tillair/ Chartair was a maverick in his day, he would let guys into a C441 around 3000 hrs total and 2000 multi if they came up thru his ranks !! And almost without exception they all turned into damned fine pilots and are continuing their airline careers around the world.
..................yr right there guys, should have said 5000 hrs twin to fly an Sneca 1!:-)
I can recall having about 2500TT 1500twin CMD & drooling at the pilots of PA31's as I hoped into the old Seminole or beat up old C310 which I might add I only got to fly it as I knew the owner udderwise 4get it!
Yes you needed 500TT just to wash a plane or be allowed to sit at the controls whilst on the ground:-)
Yep 'anthill' I can recall those mins to get into even an F27 with TAA etc. And the stumbling block for me was that I was near 30, no HSC to speak of & less than 1000TT, had NO chance of flying what I have ended up flying these days way back then. Then again I don't think it hurt us really, sorted out those that really wanted to fly from those that thought it might be a good job having it all paid for you & where able to stay at school & get those straight 'A's'
I know the mins in our Ops 2day have dropped since I slipped thru their net
I believe we have greater mins req'd than the 'bus drivers':-)
Wmk2
I can recall having about 2500TT 1500twin CMD & drooling at the pilots of PA31's as I hoped into the old Seminole or beat up old C310 which I might add I only got to fly it as I knew the owner udderwise 4get it!
Yes you needed 500TT just to wash a plane or be allowed to sit at the controls whilst on the ground:-)Yep 'anthill' I can recall those mins to get into even an F27 with TAA etc. And the stumbling block for me was that I was near 30, no HSC to speak of & less than 1000TT, had NO chance of flying what I have ended up flying these days way back then. Then again I don't think it hurt us really, sorted out those that really wanted to fly from those that thought it might be a good job having it all paid for you & where able to stay at school & get those straight 'A's'
I know the mins in our Ops 2day have dropped since I slipped thru their net
I believe we have greater mins req'd than the 'bus drivers':-)
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 23rd Sep 2009 at 06:44. Reason: no wonder I never got straight A's,:-)
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John.
Would not be many of us that paid for our first flying lessons in £ . s . d.
My first hours in a Chipmunk cost £ 4/10/- ($9) per hour, dual. A PPL cost around £ 300 ($600) - but my first junior wage was only £ 500 per year.
Would not be many of us that paid for our first flying lessons in £ . s . d.
My first hours in a Chipmunk cost £ 4/10/- ($9) per hour, dual. A PPL cost around £ 300 ($600) - but my first junior wage was only £ 500 per year.
Beggar you Ozequestrian! I just spent 30 min looking for the log book.
How far do you want to go back?
The 33/22 hrs for the RPPL/PPL sounded right but the Navs were different in 1973.
I had my first flying lesson with one G Layt on 26 November 1973 and successfully terrorised J Bally from DCA for my RPPL on 12 December, some 14 days later with 37 hours in the logbook. I often did 3 or 4 x 1 hr training flights in a day (Generally with more than 6 aircraft in the circuit!)
Back then there were 7 navs
Nav I = 2 hrs dual
Nav II = 3 hrs dual
Nav III = 3 hrs dual
Nav VI = 3 hrs solo
Nav V = 2 hrs dual IF (to build on the 3 hrs IF for the RPPL)
Nav VI = 5 hrs ICUS
Nav VII = 4 hrs solo
Then the CFI signed off that you had completed your navs and submitted the paperwork to DCA, who either issued your PPL or selected you for a PPL test.
I paid $20/hr dual and $18/hr solo for a C150.
Dr
How far do you want to go back?
The 33/22 hrs for the RPPL/PPL sounded right but the Navs were different in 1973.
I had my first flying lesson with one G Layt on 26 November 1973 and successfully terrorised J Bally from DCA for my RPPL on 12 December, some 14 days later with 37 hours in the logbook. I often did 3 or 4 x 1 hr training flights in a day (Generally with more than 6 aircraft in the circuit!)
Back then there were 7 navs
Nav I = 2 hrs dual
Nav II = 3 hrs dual
Nav III = 3 hrs dual
Nav VI = 3 hrs solo
Nav V = 2 hrs dual IF (to build on the 3 hrs IF for the RPPL)
Nav VI = 5 hrs ICUS
Nav VII = 4 hrs solo
Then the CFI signed off that you had completed your navs and submitted the paperwork to DCA, who either issued your PPL or selected you for a PPL test.
I paid $20/hr dual and $18/hr solo for a C150.
Dr
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Tailwheel, did you do the old PPL... 40 hours minimum, which included the three hour dual and three hour solo cross country and once you had your PPL you could go off in your Chippie with the 5 channel VHF and get lost to your heart's content.
I started in Tiger Moths till they required radio at the secondary aerodromes.
I started in Tiger Moths till they required radio at the secondary aerodromes.
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I went thru the same system as FTDK and was one of the 10% or so that DCA checked. That was a fun ride because the Examiner had never encountered carby icing before!
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Would not be many of us that paid for our first flying lessons in £ . s . d.
I was one of the lucky ones on ATC scholarships but the hourly cost then, as best as I can recall, was somewhere around the cost of a Big Mac these days ... when I finished the licence we burnt the remaining hours off doing interesting things like aeros and blind I/F circuits. After that, still being a school lad, it was a case of save the pennies and go for a hop and pop fly every few weeks out at West Maitland ... frustrating as anything. If I couldn't scrounge the petrol for the motorbike I had to wait another week to get my flying fix ... thank heavens for aircraft fuel drain requirements .. I was always very careful to drain enough into the bottle to do a valid check for water contamination and, being a good environmentalist, couldn't throw the slops on the ground .. so into the bike tank they went.
but my first junior wage was only £ 500 per year
.. recall that sort of thing well from part time jobs etc .. indeed, on graduation as an engineer ... I thought I was a budding millionaire on something approaching $4000 a year.
I was one of the lucky ones on ATC scholarships but the hourly cost then, as best as I can recall, was somewhere around the cost of a Big Mac these days ... when I finished the licence we burnt the remaining hours off doing interesting things like aeros and blind I/F circuits. After that, still being a school lad, it was a case of save the pennies and go for a hop and pop fly every few weeks out at West Maitland ... frustrating as anything. If I couldn't scrounge the petrol for the motorbike I had to wait another week to get my flying fix ... thank heavens for aircraft fuel drain requirements .. I was always very careful to drain enough into the bottle to do a valid check for water contamination and, being a good environmentalist, couldn't throw the slops on the ground .. so into the bike tank they went.
but my first junior wage was only £ 500 per year
.. recall that sort of thing well from part time jobs etc .. indeed, on graduation as an engineer ... I thought I was a budding millionaire on something approaching $4000 a year.
ahhhhhh..... those initial RPPL days with Bill Bell. (Dec. RIP) Circa 1980. Warrnambool. VH-WSU, WSX, WSP, CPB, SOW, KMF, to name a few.
Cheers,
Aus'
Cheers,
Aus'
Last edited by ausflyer; 24th Sep 2009 at 03:45.
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Bill Bell!
I did my CPL training with Bill Bell at South West Aviators, Warrnambool back in 1996.
He was a great bloke and a bit of a character.
Took no c**p from anyone.
Cheers,
Paul.
I did my CPL training with Bill Bell at South West Aviators, Warrnambool back in 1996.
He was a great bloke and a bit of a character.
Took no c**p from anyone.
Cheers,
Paul.
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Word of advice if you haven't done the theory exam yet you'll need to ring CASA to organise the exam - the computer won't let you book it as you already have a PPL.
And you'll probably need to do a Flight Review before you'll be able to do any solo flying - which is really helpful if you want to practise some circuits.
And you'll probably need to do a Flight Review before you'll be able to do any solo flying - which is really helpful if you want to practise some circuits.
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When they brought in the RPPL/UPPL it was 30 hrs for the RPPL of which 15 had to be solo.
The UPPL was a further 20 hrs x/c. After a number of IMC type accidents they introduced 3hrs IF to the RPPL making it 33hrs.
When I started it was £5.10 an hour in the Chippy. After 16Feb66 I remember hiring a PA32 for $22/hr wet, a Baron was about $40/hr.....
Avgas then was cheaper than motor spirit at 2/6 gallon...!!
Times have changed, but I don't think in this area for the better...
yeah!!
The UPPL was a further 20 hrs x/c. After a number of IMC type accidents they introduced 3hrs IF to the RPPL making it 33hrs.
When I started it was £5.10 an hour in the Chippy. After 16Feb66 I remember hiring a PA32 for $22/hr wet, a Baron was about $40/hr.....
Avgas then was cheaper than motor spirit at 2/6 gallon...!!
Times have changed, but I don't think in this area for the better...
yeah!!
Last edited by spirax; 24th Sep 2009 at 02:46.
