Light Twin Operating Costs
Aseanaero. I am very cautious of those on line operating costs as they tend to be "salesman's figures".
For example:
Hourly Engine Reserve: US$33.94 x 2,000 hrs TBO = US$67,880 for two IO520 or IO550 overhauls???? I don't think so - I'd be very surprised if a quality overhaul with new cylinders etc was less US$115,000 for two engines today?
Their maintenance costs, labour and parts, may be close on a new US$1 mill aircraft but are very low for an average 10,000 hour Australian airframe.
For example:
Hourly Engine Reserve: US$33.94 x 2,000 hrs TBO = US$67,880 for two IO520 or IO550 overhauls???? I don't think so - I'd be very surprised if a quality overhaul with new cylinders etc was less US$115,000 for two engines today?
Their maintenance costs, labour and parts, may be close on a new US$1 mill aircraft but are very low for an average 10,000 hour Australian airframe.
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Aseanaero. I am very cautious of those on line operating costs as they tend to be "salesman's figures"
As I said before price out the fuel cost per hour (I don't know what avgas is per litre in Oz anymore) then times that by 3 and that's a good rule of thumb for operating cost for a mid utilisation operation.
As an example 30 US gph x 3.78 x A$2 (?) = $226.80 fuel
$226.80 (fuel) x 3 = A$680 per hour
The only way to do this properly is to do a spreadsheet and price out the major components and fixed costs locally and add a margin on for avionics and unscheduled maintenance.
Another factor is where the US$ is compared to the $A as most spares are priced in US$. This can really blow a hole in the budget when the A$ devalues against the US$ like it did late 2008.
ps. you guys are lucky you can still buy avgas in Oz , it has to be purchased by the drum here in Indo now and is between US$3 to $4 per litre when available. Anything that can be converted to mogas has been done and anything turbo , high compression / injected has been parked (and slowly being sold off) as they can't get fuel at remote locations without a lot of headaches. We should be delivering another C402C to Oz next month (1984 model TT 6,100hrs) , most piston twins here averaged 200 to 300 hrs a year utilisation so a lot of low time airframes but they need to be totally gone over due to erratic standards of maintenance, original radios and avionics and none of them have been hangared.
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Last edited by aseanaero; 7th Sep 2009 at 15:10.
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here here Torres. No truer words were ever spoken!! and well done on the operating costs !! You are undoubtedly like me....stood back from various aircraft and thrown your wallet at it !!
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If the aircraft is to be maintained in the Territory, that will need to be factored in also.
The labour rate is much higher than figures commonly quoted. possibly even twice.
I would have thought the true rate would be along the lines of;
think of a figure and treble it.
I am sure that in the long term you will find that to be the most accurate.
All the operating costs mentioned will only increase...... and then the hidden extra expenditure just goes on and on.
high utilisation is the key, - and buying a good aircraft in the first place.
So many operations are doomed the minute the Ops manager or equiv buys the machine.
You need and independent engineering assessment. Yes, by a LAME.
And don't buy a cheap twin,..... ever.
I think everyone here knows how they work out.
Operating a fleet of one aircraft is never easy also. Sometimes the losses can be almost halved by adding an extra one.
All the best with it, I am sure we are all watching with interest.
The labour rate is much higher than figures commonly quoted. possibly even twice.
I would have thought the true rate would be along the lines of;
think of a figure and treble it.
I am sure that in the long term you will find that to be the most accurate.
All the operating costs mentioned will only increase...... and then the hidden extra expenditure just goes on and on.
high utilisation is the key, - and buying a good aircraft in the first place.
So many operations are doomed the minute the Ops manager or equiv buys the machine.
You need and independent engineering assessment. Yes, by a LAME.
And don't buy a cheap twin,..... ever.
I think everyone here knows how they work out.
Operating a fleet of one aircraft is never easy also. Sometimes the losses can be almost halved by adding an extra one.
All the best with it, I am sure we are all watching with interest.
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We're maintaining a C414A here at the moment. Each 100 hrly is working out at about $10K for scheduled and unscheduled maintenance over the past 2 years and 1000 odd hours. (not including engine & prop o'hauls of course - no SIDs either). I don't think a PA31-350 would be that different maintenance cost wise. There have been a few expensive "in between" items (starter adapter, fuel px transducer, hyd px switch etc). So I'd allow about another $2K per 100 hours for more unscheduled maintenance.
I hope this helps with your number crunching.
I hope this helps with your number crunching.
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Kingtoad..
Those costs are more in keeping with what I am seeing in the hangar also.
As you said it does not include SID's or similar.
It is what I would expecting the bill to be for an average routine 100 hrly though.
That is up to about $100 per hour to your maintenance provider.... a fair figure.
Those costs are more in keeping with what I am seeing in the hangar also.
As you said it does not include SID's or similar.
It is what I would expecting the bill to be for an average routine 100 hrly though.
That is up to about $100 per hour to your maintenance provider.... a fair figure.
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So there you go, Maintenance and engine/prop overhaul allowance has hit $180 per hour, fuel will be $180 and $240 per hour, and we have yet to hit the fixed cost of insurance and the cost of financing the thing.....so assume 500 hours a year, what do ya reckon ? allow another $90/hr absolute minimum.
So here we are at $500+/ hr and we have not looked outside the obvious. Plenty more fees and nav charges and.........and........
Will be $600 before you know it and thats without any radio work, new bits, heck even your Jepps charts etc.
Anybody want to by a new plane.....nice inetrior new everything.....even faster thana FTDK (even if he is in denial).......I am not sure woning one is such fun now....
Tail Wheel .... shut this thread before someone hurts themselves
So here we are at $500+/ hr and we have not looked outside the obvious. Plenty more fees and nav charges and.........and........
Will be $600 before you know it and thats without any radio work, new bits, heck even your Jepps charts etc.
Anybody want to by a new plane.....nice inetrior new everything.....even faster thana FTDK (even if he is in denial).......I am not sure woning one is such fun now....
Tail Wheel .... shut this thread before someone hurts themselves
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Not good with figures?
I noticed one post which said the P68 cruised at 135 knots. The ones I flew for several years cruised at 155 knots. The manual figure is 157 knots. I also calculated that they could legally fly six pax from Alice Springs to Ayers rock, provided a couple of them were small women and an extra seatbelt was fitted in the rear. We never did it though.
That poster was not the only one to have limited knowledge about the P68.
I also had a CASA FOI phone me when I was putting a p68 on our AOC. He told me the p68 "would only get 120 knots if it was going down hill" and I should modify the performance figures I had submitted. I advised him that both the makers manual and my own experience confirmed the figures I had submitted. The figures remained the same.
The P68 is a much maligned aircraft that has six seats, cruises at 155 knots burning 77 litres per hour and can go anywhere a 206 can go. It's not a King Air, but it's a very useful aircraft.
That poster was not the only one to have limited knowledge about the P68.
I also had a CASA FOI phone me when I was putting a p68 on our AOC. He told me the p68 "would only get 120 knots if it was going down hill" and I should modify the performance figures I had submitted. I advised him that both the makers manual and my own experience confirmed the figures I had submitted. The figures remained the same.
The P68 is a much maligned aircraft that has six seats, cruises at 155 knots burning 77 litres per hour and can go anywhere a 206 can go. It's not a King Air, but it's a very useful aircraft.
Sprucegoose
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A Baron is just two Bonanzas flying in close formation!
I noticed one post which said the P68 cruised at 135 knots. The ones I flew for several years cruised at 155 knots. The manual figure is 157 knots.
The P68 is a much maligned aircraft that has six seats, cruises at 155 knots burning 77 litres per hour and can go anywhere a 206 can go. It's not a King Air, but it's a very useful aircraft.
Did I mention they are bloody noisy having a donk next to your ear? The noise an IO-360 makes is not even a nice one.
Gimmi a 206/210 anyday!
bushy, the one we used to fly was planned at 140kt and 80lph. It did have a hard life though, was an old C model from memory.
GG, i'll agree with you about them been hot as hell on the ground, but it'll always hold a special place in my heart as the first twin i was endorsed on
GG, i'll agree with you about them been hot as hell on the ground, but it'll always hold a special place in my heart as the first twin i was endorsed on